Need Advice

[ImaPK]

First I want to say I'm sorry for what I'm about to say. There are some fine ministers and counselors on J2 and I take nothing away from their calling and ministry and counseling abilities. I, myself have called on some of you in the past. With that being said I'm now gonna "step on some toes" and I'm sure the bullets will start flying but like my sig says at the bottom "If the truth hurts, deal with it...it's still the truth."

The majority(and I did say MAJORITY) of the ministers and counselors on J2 have never PERSONALLY experienced the emotional pain of this situation. Now before you say "Whoa, ImaPK, I have." think on this. Most of you have been with the same person for many years and have years of trust built into your relationship. You can ask guidence from God, read all the books and have all the degrees you want, but YOU DON'T KNOW THE PAIN UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL. I don't mean that you don't have friends and family members who have gone through it, I mean YOU. YOU don't know the ultimate feeling of betrayal when you find out PERSONALLY that the one you love has left your heart feeling like it's been broken into a million pieces. That the one you had planned on spending the rest of your life with has left you feeling lifeless. That the one that you wanted to have kids with has left you feeling impotent. That the one you wanted to grow old with has left you feeling like you've just reach 100 when you're only 23. You can sympathize and counsel with them all you like but unless you REALLY know the PAIN it's hard to UNDERSTAND what they are going through. I hope that none of you ever have to feel that kind of pain.

If this young man's relationship is meant to work it will work(God's plan).If it's not meant to work it won't. I'll temper my first response(agreeing with doilooklost)by saying if she means that much to you give her a second chance(everyone deserves one)but at the first sign of "trouble"(drunk kissing party time)cut your losses and find someone else.

[Who new]

I believe she deserves special consideration because she talked about it and didn't try hide. Lot's of really bad stuff can be handled if you're talking about it. This seems to be God's approach to us, after all, doesn't it?

[Pastor Bill]

OK, Dr Ron, I know what you mean about needing more information, from what I gathered, this was a committed relationship where such activity would be considered "cheating" which is a little different than what you described between you and your wife years ago.

As always forgiveness is a must, but I do think this is something to be taken seriously. If this is an exclusive relationship looking toward marriage as you described, then the biggest question is does she feel the same way about the relationship? If not, then this instance is understandable, and you need to understand the relationship isn't what you thought.

If she does feel this relationship is headed in that direction, then it may be a maturity issue, and you both need to ask yourselves if you are ready for this type of relationship.

And while I agree with you Dr. Ron that trust is a gift, it's also not a gift to take for granted. Frankly if you can't/won't trust her, end the relationship now. If you do, then the two of you need to work through the issues here, and really look at your relationship to see if it's actually what you both want, and can both commit to, then as I said earlier, proceed with caution, don't rush into anything.

[n2jesus]

I'm with IMAPK on most of the things he said...I was left the 1st time in 1990, with all the feelings that IMAPK described, yet with all my heart I wanted to forgive and work through the broken trust...it was a long, hard road, but I believed it would never happen again...I was a christian, he was not...well it happened again 12 years later...this time, he divorced me and all the gut wrenching emotions of seperating a 27 year marriage...

I would have to know in my heart of hearts that this was the one for me without a doubt before I could commit my heart again...forgive yes...but taking it slow would be my advice...

To this day my life is completely and drastically changed...some things for the better, some not...I said all this to say, it takes two completely committed individuals to decide, not based upon feelings alone, to stay committed to another no matter what....there are no free rides or guarentees...either party can change their mind at any time...

All you married folks who are comfortable in your trust and relationship...keep nurturing it like your life depended on it...unless you have been on the other side of a broken family, (take my word, you don't want to go there) it changes every one involved...husband, wife, children, grandchildren, in laws and every one else that loves you....

I am pro family all the way and believe we should do everything in our power to maintain it to it's fullest potential...I miss being a family...good times or bad, it's worth it to hang in there...my x has no idea the loss his family has suffered for him deciding to do his own thing....my 8 year old grandson was 3 when he left and he still asks questions 5 years later...how sad...

[christian]

Preach it, IAMAPK. ......and myself being someone who also knows from experience.......The following is the best description I've ever heard about betrayal and divorce. It's worse than death. When a person dies, you can have a funeral, bury the body, and at some point, the pain lessens, and you get on with your life. When betrayal and divorce occurs, you have a death, but you can't have a funeral, and you can't bury the dead thing. It just is there with the broken hearts, broken homes, hurt children, finances cut in half, and all the other pain that goes with it. Better to find out now what a person is like than have to go through the pain after marriage.

You can almost tell the ones who say to understand and anyone can make a mistake, etc. It's the ones who haven't experienced that kind of pain and devastation. When you marry someone who is faithless, you pay the rest of your life, even if you get a divorce. You better listen to IMAPK.

[Worshipn4ever]

Dump her girls come a dime a dozen. There is another one around the corner.

ok for some RANDOM reason I read this as "there is another stupid one around the corner." hehe...

Now...I didn't vote, due to the fact that I forgot too...

But...I think far to often we as "christians" tend to read into things too much. Dude...don't sweat the little stuff. Dating is get to know the person, every aspect of them.

I look at the situation from the "who cares" aspect thinking...alcohol and kissing...a typicial combination. She obvoiusly didn't know her limitations with drinking. Hopefully now she does.

Then I think back to when I was in high school and being mad at a friend because he "cheated" on his girlfriend, by kissing another girl (where no drinking was involved) and him trying to explain..."it just happened!" And trying to wrap my mind around the concept of "it just happened" then 10 years later I am going...oh I know how it "just happens". DUDE...let it go...because trust me...it can...just happen.

Talk to her...let her know how you feel...without getting hacked off at her...

*sitting here trying not to relive/rethink her just happened moment and trying not to gag*
Shell.y

[JanB]

Hello All! I am brand new to Jude 2.
I solicit some good Christian relationship advice. I've been dating a girl for a few years now. A few days ago she went to a little get together with her roommates. And it turned out that this little get together had alcohol. Not normally one to drink, for whatever reason she decided to indulge herself this time. She ended up having too much which led to a little kissing session with some other guy she hardly knew. Now it was just kissing and and she came to me right away the following day to confess what she had done. This is so completely out of character for her, and I've known her for a long time. I still find it hard to believe that it actually happened. But it did. So what do you think? Can this type of thing really be just a fluke? Has anyone been in this situation before? Does the trust ever come back?

Three pages later, what has happened to Mr. Joopalot?

[beth37311]

Guess he doesn't know that when he asks for advice on J2, you REALLY get advice!

[Dr. Ron]

Imapk, I understand completely where you are coming from. I know your situation very well. I can not and do not condon poor behavior for any reason. In the cases you describe of personal experience, I fully understand and agree in most part. However, not having experienced something first hand does not mean that one can not understand the full import of that conduct. I certainly do as it has been up close and personal in my family.

However, you may be assuming quite a bit to think that most of us have never had trust issues to deal with in our relationships. Everything about a relationship is not about your spouse( sig, other) having sex with someone else. There are many issues that require trust.

However, your post is not comparing apples to apples. This is not a marriage, there is no "commitment" and doesnt' appear that there will be. Sometimes one person thinks there is more commitment than the other. I still believe that I am giving proper counsel to this issue.

Pastor Bill, you , like I , am having to assume too much information to make really hard and fast counseling suggestions. I am just touching the most superficial areas of this issue. I think it goes much deeper.

I would personally have had more problem with the alcohol than the kissing thing. Alcohol causes us to do stupid stuff with people we would otherwise never be caugt dead with.

I think by now we have lost the young man who posed the original question.

[ImaPK]

You're right this is not about marriage and I don't believe it is so much about commitment...I believe the underlying premise is "trust"...personally I put trust right behind love on the emotion scale and at times even ahead of love...Joo was concerned about the "trust" issue...put it this way...say you are working on putting a roof on a church and I'm down below on the ground handing up shingles...the hammer you are using slips out of your hand and comes down and hits me on the head...now I know that you did not intentional drop that hammer but it still hit me and from this point on I will always be wary of you on a roof with a hammer in your hand and me down below...I can forgive you for hitting me but my head still hurts and I sure ain't never gonna forget

[n2jesus]

When people show you who they are believe them...I have no idea their age or anything and I know forgiveness goes a long way regardless of age or maturity...however....trust is trust...fidelity is fidelity and alcohol or not it happened and now we have to deal with it...only he can judge true remorse for the situation and only he can decide what he is willing to accept in a relationship...but if you have an understanding of a committed relationship, married or not...this is a major trust issue and anything you can't deal with while dating will be magnified a 1000 times over once you are married...ok...I think I have said enough...relationships are allot of hard work and not for cowards or sissies or the faint of heart...but when both parties want the same thing for one another...it's heaven on earth and when they don't it's the opposite...Good luck and God grant you the wisdom beyond your years to know the right thing to do....

[christian]

Amen, in2Jesus.......Amen.

[teach]

hey joopalot, you should post again and tell us what you think about all this! we want to hear from you!

welcome to the forum!

wendy k