Disgusting

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Jennifer Smith
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Re: Disgusting

Postby Jennifer Smith » November 4th, 2008, 7:30 pm

Poimen wrote:Of course they are projecting Obama has won. But the folks crying over it is just to much!!!

PLUS they are rejoicing over it as a racial win - "forget his politics we elected a black man aren't we wonderful." They are even quoting MLK jr. as a prophet, indeed Moses, and Obama his Joshua. :shock: :roll: :x

Does racism run so deep in this country that such a motivation is the main reason for the election of Obama?

:evil: :evil: :evil:

If it is the case, and this nut has been elected President, then this country is full of nuts, & my desire for secession has found revitalization.


Poimen, don't be too discouraged and try not to get caught up in the race issue.. We don't have to make it an issue for us, even if it factored into some people's votes. There were much larger issues than the outside of a person, obviously; I think most people voted for those reasons, and some because of race.

But I will say I don't see it as necessarily racism for a person of color to want to vote for Obama- besides his platform, they may have seen this as an accomplishment, a sign of opportunity for blacks, closure. I don't agree with what he stands for as a politician, but now that he is being declared the winner of the election, I'm going to pray for the man to do the best he can with what he is now inheriting and that God will work in his life.
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Tim Elston
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Re: It is

Postby Tim Elston » November 4th, 2008, 7:55 pm

Pastor Gary wrote:It is more than abortion, Tim; the whole redistributionist, Socialism-lite, issue is huge for many people.


Is graded taxation socialism? We've had it for what, 95 years? He wants to increase the tax on the top 5 percent of income earners. There's a case to be made against that, but there is also a case to be made for remaining solvent at the expense of someone besides people who are scraping by. That's a huge and complex issue, but socialism? Socialism is the government ownership of the means of production and distribution. Raising the tax rate is not socialism.

Gary wrote:As for character, he hasn't shown much yet to judge.


My former Executive Director at the American Theological Library Association Dennis Norlin has an adult daughter who is wheel-chair bound, due to, if I remember, MS. When Obama was a new, junior senator in Illinois Dennis and his daughter were out in the corridor of the convention center resting at a conference, and Barack Obama came walking through. As Dennis tells it, Obama was walking on the opposite side of what is a rather large corridor. When Obama saw Dennis's daughter, he made a 90 degree turn and came over to say hello. There were no camera's around, and Obama was alone. Obama put his hand on the daughter's shoulder and made small talk with her and Dennis. That story is not the end-all, be-all of who Obama is, but there's nothing I've seen about him that would suggest that it was anything other than an act of kindness. Dennis was touched by it.

Are we to judge his lackluster younger years when he admits he used recreational drugs? That signals a flawed character to many people.


My best friend is an evangelical pastor who was convicted of dealing drugs when he was nineteen. The Lutheran church held it against him later in life and forbade him to be a pastor, and eventually in his fifties he finally started to pastor in the EPC.

After graduating from Harvard Obama chose to become a community organizer in south-side Chicago instead of take a high-paying legal position. He was doing that about the time that I was galavanting around the Pacific Northwest and western Canada holding revivals. I understand what passion and dedication are, and I respect what Obama did. That speaks highly of his character to me.

How about his support for his rather controversial Pastor/mentor, and then his throwing him under the bus for political expediency? Should we applaud his character for his support of Wright or for his political savvy in distancing himself?


I understood what Wright was saying. I heard COGOP preachers damn America in different words all my life. I can sympathize with that black community and understand their anger. And I don't give a rat's tail what the righteous around here think of me for it. I don't think Obama threw Wright under the bus. Americans did. And Wright showed that he had no respect for Obama's political situation, so Obama distanced himself from him. I understand that. And anyone who declaimed Obama for Wright's comments is in no ethical position to criticize him for distancing himself, in my opinion.

Gary wrote:The "his-birth-certificate-was-faked" email whisper campaign was idiotic i my view, but Obama fed it with the shroud of mystery and secrecy he enforced... his life, and his Thesis, should be open to examination. It has not been.


When you first stood against making that a scandal was the first I'd heard of it. I did my own snooping and at first thought there might be something to it. I even wrote a friend (mentioned above) and said something was fishy in Denmark. I later found a better display of Obama's Certificate of Live Birth, which he made available to quell the suspicion, and, regardless of whether he was born on Krypton or Mars, the certificate was legitimate and clearly indicated that it was authoritative regarding the facts of Obama's birth, from a legal perspective. I see no shroud of mystery in that.

What bothers me about Obama is that he strikes me as a regular politician. His largest doner client, along with McCain and both Democratic and Republican senators, was the finance industry. He has Robert Rubin for a top financial advisor, and Rubin was a top-ten culprit in eliminating the laws that led to our current financial crisis. I am also deeply disturbed by Obama's record on abortion and voting against legislation that would have protected children who survive abortion. Not only can I not fathom that, but I am terribly angered by it. My Democratic friends have gotten an earful from me over that.

But, as you know, I am as deeply disturbed about Obama's position on abortion as I am about Bush's policy on torture and the administration's strategically motivated war in Iraq. Abortion, torture, and strategically motivated war all fall on the same moral level to me. I am disturbed by Bush and even more so by Cheney. I believe that Cheney should be tried and convicted of crimes. I say that as a man who voted for him in 2000, for Alan Keyes in 1996, and for the Constitution Party candidates for president in 2004 and 2008. Okay, I'll admit it: I think Cheney's character is despicable. I am not too keen on Bush, either.

I guess I just talked myself into understanding why people think Obama is so despicable. Okay, I understand you now. I think Obama has more redeeming qualities than Bush, and especially more than Cheney, but I think I understand you now. If I can despise Cheney for what I consider to be callous crimes and corruption, I can understand you for despising Obama for what you consider to be callous moral and/or legal crimes. I don't share your opinion, but I think I understand.

We survived Clinton; we survived Bush/Cheney; I suspect we'll survive Obama/Reid/Pelosi. Had I known in 2000 that we'd have doubled our national debt, tortured legally unprotected detainees, committed extraordinary rendition, betrayed CIA agents for political expediency, be spending $10 billion a month on a contrived, unnecessary war that has jeopardized our national security for the foreseeable future and weakened our ability to defeat al-Qaida, and built castles for billionaires at every little-guy American's expense, I would not have thought we'd survive it. Part of my rejoicing in Obama's victory is the defeat of the corrupt, morally bankrupt Republican party leadership that trashed the conservative legacy for the last eight years, and my fleshly feeling of spite for rank and file Republican partisan support for the egregious behavior of their party. Why Republicans who are loathing the Obama victory but not equally despising their Republican leaders' betrayal of America's best values is beyond me and is as distrubing to me as Obama's victory apprently is to my malcontent fellow Americans here on Jude2.
"And just when you think you've got me figured out, remember, No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it is not the same river and he is not the same man." --Heraclitus

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Re: It is

Postby Pastor Gary » November 4th, 2008, 8:51 pm

Tim Elston wrote:
Pastor Gary wrote:It is more than abortion, Tim; the whole redistributionist, Socialism-lite, issue is huge for many people.


Is graded taxation socialism? We've had it for what, 95 years? He wants to increase the tax on the top 5 percent of income earners. There's a case to be made against that, but there is also a case to be made for remaining solvent at the expense of someone besides people who are scraping by. That's a huge and complex issue, but socialism? Socialism is the government ownership of the means of production and distribution. Raising the tax rate is not socialism.


Is graded taxation the whole of Obama's economic mindset? I infer from his speeches and record that he subscribes pretty much to the classic "Progressive" (read: left-wing) nanny-state view. Government day care, government pre-school (let's call it "Head Start"), government health care (the V.A. medical system has done so well...), government education (those pesky homeschoolers), government food, government housing, government control of the public airwaves (the so-called "fairness" doctrine), more government regulation of business and industry, government deciding what is and isn't fair compensation, government this and government that... it is based upon the premise that America has not been fair. I don't share that view.

If that doesn't smack of socialism to you, nothing I can say will convince you. No, it is not precisely the classic definition of "government ownership of the means of production and distribution." You don't have to own it if you can control it and let others take the risks.
"God is excited to show you mercy. He rises to give you His compassion." (Isaiah 30:18)

"For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous;
you surround them with your favor as with a shield." (Psalm 5:12)

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Mike Vande
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Re: It is

Postby Mike Vande » November 4th, 2008, 9:21 pm

Tim Elston wrote: My former Executive Director at the American Theological Library Association Dennis Norlin has an adult daughter who is wheel-chair bound, due to, if I remember, MS. When Obama was a new, junior senator in Illinois Dennis and his daughter were out in the corridor of the convention center resting at a conference, and Barack Obama came walking through. As Dennis tells it, Obama was walking on the opposite side of what is a rather large corridor. When Obama saw Dennis's daughter, he made a 90 degree turn and came over to say hello. There were no camera's around, and Obama was alone. Obama put his hand on the daughter's shoulder and made small talk with her and Dennis. That story is not the end-all, be-all of who Obama is, but there's nothing I've seen about him that would suggest that it was anything other than an act of kindness. Dennis was touched by it.


What, she didn't rise up from her wheel chair and and walk after he touched her? Considering all the rhetoric about him I'm hearing on the tube now, that's just down-right disappointing!
Why is it that bad decisions seem to make to most interesting testimonies?

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Postby Shellie » November 5th, 2008, 1:20 am

Vande wrote:

What, she didn't rise up from her wheel chair and and walk after he touched her? Considering all the rhetoric about him I'm hearing on the tube now, that's just down-right disappointing!


:lol:
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Postby Mike Vande » November 5th, 2008, 2:28 am

Tim Elston wrote: I don't understand this opinion of the man.


That in itself is saddening.

Tim Elston wrote:I don't get it.


Obviously not. You couldn't have diagnosed the problem any better.

Tim Elston wrote: It saddens me.


Tim, your fall from faith saddened me and many others here. And now, putting all your belief into men is even more saddening. No man can be the answer to the basic underlying problem of the human condition, because no man has sufficient resources to change it. Sin is the problem, Jesus is the answer. He died for your sins, Tim. Obama won't and even if he would, his death wouldn't change anything that matters, because he isn't God. Jesus is.


Tim Elston wrote:What is so despicable about his character?


The moral slide of this country and it's laws are or ought to be enough to convince you that no man is worthy of real trust. And Obama is no different than any other man. None of them is the answer to the problem.

Tim Elston wrote:Is it, too, reduced to the issue of abortion?


The sacrifice of children on the altars of their parent's convenience is a "reduction" to you now. That's saddening

Tim Elston wrote:What is it that so sours the hearts of the Jude2 faithful about him?


Can't answer for anyone else here, Tim, but I'm soured on him because he has become the secular version of a god to way too many people in this country. It rends my heart that so many people have deluded themselves about him, and pinned the fullfillment of their fondest fantasies & hopes on electing him. It hurts because of the disappointment that await them, as they forced to gradually lower their expectations of him further & further, until they finally get the point that he's not only not going to fill their gas tanks and pay off their mortgages, he never was able to, and that his liberal/progressive policies have eroded the freedoms guaranteed in our constitution and made our economic problems even worse.
Why is it that bad decisions seem to make to most interesting testimonies?

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Postby RamboPreacher » November 5th, 2008, 2:34 am

not in response to any particular post, but thought I would post in this thread for the contextual statement regarding the initial post.
Image

a "racial" win? blarg.
Thanks, Brent "RamboPreacher" Hoefling


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