Printing offering amounts in the bulletin

DeWayneTN · Postby **DeWayneTN** » February 25th, 2009, 3:42 am

One church is doing that - some even print names. What are your thoughts?

http://ministrytodaymag.com/index.php/m ... e-stand-up

RamboPreacher · Postby **RamboPreacher** » February 25th, 2009, 4:05 am

no sir, I don't like it. well, at least as far as putting names on there.

Not sure what difference it makes for posting the total amount, though at our church if anyone wants to know I will tell them. I can't see that breaking down the giving amounts and publishing them, would be productive.

As for saying there are 10 people that gave $1, etc... Unless the offerings were given in an envelope and the counter knew who gave it to track it - how would someone be able to say that the 10, $1 bills are from ten different people? bah.

no sir, i don't like it.

Gerald Creasy · Postby **Gerald Creasy** » February 25th, 2009, 4:48 am

DeWayneTN wrote:One church is doing that - some even print names. What are your thoughts?

When you open that bulletin does it have one of those computer chips in it that'll sound a trumpet????

Dr. Ron · Postby **Dr. Ron** » February 25th, 2009, 6:12 am

Since we don't ever pass an offering plate, we allow our people to give wihtout fanfare.

They have a tithe envelope that they can place the amount in and drop it in the tithe box by the door.

To post those amounts, especially if the names are given, is a direct breach of privacy. I would never do it and suggest that you go to your pastor immediately.

That should be taught and allowed to be personal.

Cpt. Jack · Postby **Cpt. Jack** » February 25th, 2009, 6:58 am

To post those amounts, especially if the names are given, is a direct breach of privacy. I would never do it and suggest that you go to your pastor immediately.

Now that this subject has been put in here. Let me inject this. In the Georgia State paper a list of names and amounts was published. This was in reguards to a land purchase and campgound upgrade. It also showed the people who had made pledges but had not paid them. One church made a $6.00 offering. Im sure that church was proud when this information went all over the state.

Yes, this was at the direction of the Overseer.

A person must love this.

Cpt. Jack :lol:

Pastor Bill · Postby **Pastor Bill** » February 25th, 2009, 7:22 am

I see no good coming from posting amounts of offerings (totals I can understand, not who gave X amount)

I can even understand listing people as a thank you for donations to a special project, but there is no need to include amounts, we don't know know that that $6 may have been more of a stretch for that church than the $1000 someone else gave.

MacUser · Postby **MacUser** » February 25th, 2009, 7:24 am

I think it's good to post the incoming weekly offerings and monthly account totals... but not release specific names. Privacy issues etc.

TW · Postby TW » February 25th, 2009, 8:49 am

I don't think that this is what Christ had in mind when he said:

Matthew 6:1-4 (New International Version)

Matthew 6

1"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 3But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

TW

Dr. Ron · Postby **Dr. Ron** » February 25th, 2009, 10:08 am

Mac....with all due respect...your idea of printing the income either weekly or monthly is a very poor idea.

First, it brings undo attention to the visitor that money is an issue.

Secondly, it gives the impression of this being a social club.

Thirdly, the church's business shouldn't be hanging out there for the world to see.

And finally, it gives an intimidating message that you are expected to give.
Barna says this is one of the factors in people returning to church as unbelievers. We are to be on guard for that sort of thing.

If the bulletin is for all the people, then leave that stuff out.

We don't even post that workers are needed in a ministry anymore. I don't want anyone to get the idea we are "needy" in any area.

RuSKY · Postby **RuSKY** » February 25th, 2009, 10:55 am

Dr. Ron wrote:Since we don't ever pass an offering plate, we allow our people to give wihtout fanfare.

They have a tithe envelope that they can place the amount in and drop it in the tithe box by the door.

Dr. Ron, I'm in agreement with you.

Since a small group of us left COGOP about 18 months ago, and started an independent,(read non-demoninational) local Church,
we have never taken an offering.

There is a box in the back and there are envelopes supplied. If you want to give, you give. If not, don't give. No one knows,
except the Clerk/Treasurer, who gives what.

Finance is never named, except for deciding what funds are to be used for.

So far, we have everything we need. We pay our monthly bills , help
people who need help, and our treasury is still growing.

Once a month, the treasurer posts a statement of the total monthly income, itemized expenditures, and balance.
She leaves this up for one week.

Anyone who attends there can see where their money is spent and know
how we are doing financially.

It is so different than where we went before.

Some years ago, I heard one fellow say that in the local COGOP, there was so much leather slapping, he
thought he was in an old western movie because so many offerings were taken. :lol:

I love the way we are now. We don't have a S.O. dictating who we have
as pastor, we decide. We don't report to Gen. Hq. and they don't own us nor our properties.

RuSKY

one love · Postby **one love** » February 25th, 2009, 11:12 am

I cant imagine how one could feel good about posting peoples offerings by name :shock:

Sometimes I give anomalously..

bibleguy · Postby **bibleguy** » February 25th, 2009, 4:15 pm

Maybe you could post the names of those who NEVER give, huh? :visa:

Actually, I think TW's use of Matthew 6 is quite appropriate as a response to publishing giving quantities.

ALTHOUGH, tithing (for those who do) is not exactly a privacy issue. If you tithe, and your salary is known, then your tithe is known too. If you gave the tithe of your fields, everyone would know the size of your fields (or could know it). If you gave the tithe of your flocks, your sheep would pass under the rod and every tenth one would be given. Anyone could see your flock and know your tithe amount.

Offerings, freewill offerings, however are not so. This is where you should give according to your heart and let it be between you and God.

My 2 cents. (:oops: Oops, I just told you how much I gave...

)

RamboPreacher · Postby **RamboPreacher** » February 26th, 2009, 3:02 am

bibleguy wrote:...ALTHOUGH, tithing (for those who do) is not exactly a privacy issue. If you tithe, and your salary is known, then your tithe is known too. If you gave the tithe of your fields, everyone would know the size of your fields (or could know it). If you gave the tithe of your flocks, your sheep would pass under the rod and every tenth one would be given. Anyone could see your flock and know your tithe amount....

uhm, gotta disagree.

who knows what someone gives (tithe)? not the congregation. This is known by God, the giver, the offering counter, the treasurer, and possibly (though not necessarily) the pastor. it is not general knowledge of someone's salary by the gift of giving a tithe. further, there is no way to know, unless it is noted - if it is really 10%. maybe it's gross, maybe it's net. maybe it's simply an offering, labeled as a tithe.

MacUser · Postby **MacUser** » February 26th, 2009, 4:25 am

Dr. Ron wrote:Mac....with all due respect...your idea of printing the income either weekly or monthly is a very poor idea.

Dr. Ron,
That is absolutely fine. We all have opinions based on our experiences. I agree with you that theoretically it just seems wrong... but having been the finance committee chairman, Pastor Booster and directly involved in CoGoP church finances for over 10+ years.. I slowly changed mine.

The typical average COGOP these days are struggling to make the bills, full time pastor and pay the insurance because the main income sources are retiring. Most said that if they had known they would given more etc. In that instance combined with other situations.. I believe it would have helped the overall atmosphere to know the exact income. The sad truth was that if I had wanted to post it in a bulletin.. I would have had to do that also. :roll:

When we recently left and started attending other thriving denominations that were 200+ - 500+.. it was printed on the Bulletin back page. It left no bad impressions here.. but a very good impression in my mind based on my past experiences.

I personally saw it as a very transparent and thriving ministry that was moving forward and was extremely encouraged by it.

EagerBeaver · Postby **EagerBeaver** » February 26th, 2009, 5:10 am

MacUser wrote:
Dr. Ron wrote:Mac....with all due respect...your idea of printing the income either weekly or monthly is a very poor idea.

Dr. Ron,
That is absolutely fine. We all have opinions based on our experiences. I agree with you that theoretically it just seems wrong... but having been the finance committee chairman, Pastor Booster and directly involved in CoGoP church finances for over 10+ years.. I slowly changed mine.

The typical average COGOP these days are struggling to make the bills, full time pastor and pay the insurance because the main income sources are retiring. Most said that if they had known they would given more etc. In that instance combined with other situations.. I believe it would have helped the overall atmosphere to know the exact income. The sad truth was that if I had wanted to post it in a bulletin.. I would have had to do that also.

When we recently left and started attending other thriving denominations that were 200+ - 500+.. it was printed on the Bulletin back page. It left no bad impressions here.. but a very good impression in my mind based on my past experiences.

I personally saw it as a very transparent and thriving ministry that was moving forward and was extremely encouraged by it.

The average COGOP is struggling because the financial model for the church is borked and has been for years. The current economy doesn't make it any better, and like you said MacUser our baby boomers are retiring leaving many churches in dire financial straits.

I can remember my old church in Kelso, WA still having their old attendance board that proudly trumpeted last Sunday's attendance of 26, this Sunday's attendance of 28 and a weekly offering of $450. Just airing your financial situation like that to visitors, like Dr. Ron says, screams WE NEED MONEY.

I used to cringe as well when, during the offertory, one of our Brothers would pray but before doing so make a plea to help our church because it's in the red. If you have five visitors and they hear that, they'll think the church can't offer much because of lack of finances.

What I used to do was ask for a hard copy of the quarterly finance report for the church I was a member at, therefore I could see where our church was doing well and struggling financially, and was more compelled to give in that fashion while still maintaining my tithe. As a member it was my right to ask for the finance report, and it's something I would encourage any member of their local church to do so they can see it and be in the know as to what is going on.

Jude 2