Yet ANOTHER dead horse beating

[Pastor Gary]

Quit judging my response. I don't have a process for judging.

So you reject MY method of judging as invalid, but can't give a valid method as a better way? Okie-dokie.

[soulsearcher]

You know, I once heard Bro. M.S. Curry say, "Not only can God unscramble an egg, but he can put it back in the shell and shove it back up the chicken's rear end if he wants to."

[Pastor Gary]

You know, I once heard Bro. M.S. Curry say, "Not only can God unscramble an egg, but he can put it back in the shell and shove it back up the chicken's rear end if he wants to."

Maybe we need to start an entirely new thread of Mess Curry quotes... somebody should write a book.

[Pastorbps]

So you reject MY method of judging as invalid, but can't give a valid method as a better way? Okie-dokie.

You missed my point. I said I don't have a standard in the context of the rest of the post. My point was I do think we ought to judge on the basis of sinful behavior which is inconsistent with being a child of God. Paul said to judge them according to their sinful behavior and didn't mention judging them by some illusive and abstract emotional quality. Since you drew a distinction between what I believe and you believe I assume you don't believe sinful behavior should be a part of making judgments. The rest of my post was to get you to see that saying we shouldn't judge on the basis of sinful behavior because our idea of what is sinful may change does not fit with Paul telling us to judge according to sinful behavior. I would say we should judge based both upon attitude and sinful behavior. My problem with your post is you don't mention sinful behavior but only fruits of the Spirit which incidentally should be witnessed by holy behavior. For example: If one loves they will not work ill to their neighbor therefore if one sins they are working ill to their neighbor and are thus not loving.

[Pastor Gary]

My point was I do think we ought to judge on the basis of sinful behavior which is inconsistent with being a child of God. Paul said to judge them according to their sinful behavior and didn't mention judging them by some illusive and abstract emotional quality. Since you drew a distinction between what I believe and you believe I assume you don't believe sinful behavior should be a part of making judgments.

Then you have inferred what I never implied.

Where we differ is in what we each believe to be sinful behavior. I believe divorce and remarriage is sinful. I do not believe that the solution to that sin is to destroy the second family. I do not agree with Poimen (and I assume, you) that once the sin of remarriage is committed, and repented of, the ongoing marriage constitutes a continual, or repetitive, sin.

[one love]

Was posting but it would just be overlooked....It is interesting thought that those who still hold to the original out look on d/r are slammed.

You DON'T hold to the ORiginal COGOP outlook on D&R. In fact there were divorced D&R pastors in the church under the original outlook.

yes you are correct not the ones in 1904 but then it would not be cogop it would have been cog

[Pastorbps]

Where we differ is in what we each believe to be sinful behavior. I believe divorce and remarriage is sinful. I do not believe that the solution to that sin is to destroy the second family. I do not agree with Poimen (and I assume, you) that once the sin of remarriage is committed, and repented of, the ongoing marriage constitutes a continual, or repetitive, sin.

I didn't really think you thought we shouldn't judge somewhat by sinful behavior but I think we open a door we don't want opened if we even imply that behavior is not evidence of righteousness. Right now I would say you're somewhat right about my views and somewhat wrong. Adultery is a married person having sexual relations with someone they are not married to. That's why Jesus called D&R adultery. He wasn't defining Adultery as D&R which is where many get confused. He was saying He didn't recognize divorce's power to dissolve a marriage so taking another woman or man in a second marriage even after a divorce was simply having an affair - adultery. Here's my problem. If a man is having an affair and gets Saved can he continue to have the affair or would God expect, even demand, that he cease the affair? He would absolutely demand it! If D&R is not a second marriage at all but is seen by God as having an affair, why would the Divine expectation or demand be any different? You say I believe it is a continual or repetitive sin. It is - in the same sense returning to a mistress would be an ongoing sin. Is a man returning over and over to his mistress an ongoing and repetitive sin? I also want to make something else clear. When I privately spoke to the committee I told them "You've misunderstood me. I'm not here to convince you I am right. I'm here for you to convince me I'm not right and so far I remain unconvinced." Until I'm convinced I can't in good conscience change my beliefs or teach this subject differently.

[Pastor Gary]

Until I'm convinced I can't in good conscience change my beliefs or teach this subject differently.

But here's the thing: I am not trying to convince you to teach anything differently. You need to obey the Lord and follow what you believe to be right. My issue is with people who refuse to grant me the same courtesy.

[Pastorbps]

It would be so much easier if it was just 2 men trying to convince each other about a non-essential issue. Unfortunately, this is not about you and me trying to convince each other. This is about the official stand of the organization and the organization's expectation for me to support their stand. There is A truth and in that sense letting everyone do their own thing means we are allowing some to teach incorrectly about an issue which would seem to be a Heaven or Hell issue. Which view is the most Biblically consistent? This is why we discuss the issue and unfortunately we passed a resolution which I keep finding is Biblically inconsistent.

[Pastor Gary]

...we passed a resolution which I keep finding is Biblically inconsistent.

We also passed one declaring COGOP officially a hierarchy -- I operate within that hierarchical system, even though I (personally) believe that is not scriptural, and will cause us much trouble in the future.

[Shellie]

Pastorpbs and one love,

Why not discuss my last post?

[pastorables]

By the same token we could be guilty of calling something pure that God does not call clean.

Here's my dilemma...I am skeptical about making doctrinal decisions based upon my assessment of someone's character. The same arguments you make could be made for anyone guilty of a number of sins.

Yet pastor, we have done this very thing for years with other sins, while staunchly defending the teaching on Divorce and Remarriage. I have watched more than once as couples (in second or third marriages) wept desiring to be a part of COGOP and to be accepted, just as we accepted others into our fellowship as Christians who were habitual in gossip, discord, backbiting, greed, malice, envy, thieves, etc.... Shall I continue? We sat and said, "two sins don't make a right", yet never dealing with the evil within. That, my friend, is a gross double standard.

pa

[Full Quiver]

PG, are you implying that the Lord would lead you in an opposite direction than He is leading pastorbps? Interesting?

[Pastorbps]

Shellie:
I will have to go into more depth on my reply after Sunday services are behind me but I want to give you a question to think about. Are there any circumstances where D&R would be universally unacceptable? After the passage of the report can you think of a single D&R circumstance every local church could agree is wrong and must be abandoned?

[Pastor Gary]

PG, are you implying that the Lord would lead you in an opposite direction than He is leading pastorbps? Interesting?

I have no idea who "pastorbps" is and what Spirit he is led by... do you? He may be the finest, most sincere man (I am assuming even gender) on the planet, or he may be something other than that. I can't speak for what he believes to be the Spirit's leading; I can only speak for what the Lord has done in my heart over the past years, and how radically He changed my views.

We will, each of us, answer for ourselves, ultimately.