should states appologize for slavery?

[Brenda]

Digging up bones. Let them there bones rest.

I'm with PK and some of the rest of you. I never owned a slave.. wouldn't around when there were slaves. Didn't have anything to do with slaves.

You know in another hundred years if the world still exist as it is.. this will probably go around one more lap.

The blacks want to be equal which they should be.. but I wish they'd get over this chip they have on their shoulders. The whites owe them something.

[Pastor Gary]

It is easy to dismiss this when spoken of in the abstract. Personalize it a bit and see if you feel the sae way:

Your next door neighbor is a decent sort and treats you okay -- not your best buddy, but politely cordial. But his grandpa, now deceased, raped and assualted your grandmother. Every time you look at him, the anger rises up and you feel resentment. Would it help you, at least a bit, resolve your feelings if he came over and said "Look, I am not personally responsible for the wrong done, but when I think about what grandpa did, I am so ashamed and really feel bad. No apology can ever undo the wrong done, but I want you to know, from me to you, that I am sorry, and I hope you can start to look at me as your friend and neighbor, and not a reminder of my families' terrible sin against your family."

Does the general principle of Matthew 5:23-24 --("Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.")-- apply to us as Christians in society as well as just in our personal lives?

[Gerald Creasy]

Since more and more people are being killed by Black on Black violence than were ever killed by Slave Owners (why spend 1000$ of 1860 money on a worker, just to kill it?), should the Black Community apologize to itself??

[Dr. Ron]

Gary, while I appreciate the "christian principles' you have brought to the subject, I also think that this has been done over and over and over.

I am a direct descendant of Cherokee Indian grandparents. My great grandmother walked the "Trail of Tears". No one has ever yet said to me , "I didn't have anything to do with that but I apologize for all the imigrants from England and Europe who came here and stole your land". "Here let me give you the deed to my property to make amends".

There are races that have chips on their shoulders. Get over it! If that neighbor comes over and apologizes for his great grandpa, does that mean that the next generation has to go through the same old thing again.
Enough is enough.
Move On. Be glad the wrongs have been righted and we all live in the greatest nation on earth. Watch "Pursuit of Happiness" and you will see a good example. If there are people who get shafted because of the color of their skin at least they have more than one option. Go to another town or another company or better yet, get a job with the government. That'll do it!

[Dr. Ron]

As a ps to my last post........if you study the history of that era and the great attempt of the government to make amends, each freed slave was to be given 40 acres and a mule. And they were. Some of them sold those back to the plantation owner and worked for them as free men. Some used their money to begin schools and the like. George Washington Carver was a reciepient of some of that money raised by selling the 40 acres and a mule.

Some did not ever claim their acreage and mule and didn't want the responsibility of having to make it on their own. The stories are myriad about this issue.....but apology and reparation was offered and made. Those who took advantage of the opportunity made something of themselves....just like today. Others who were accustomed to being fed, housed and clothed, just liked to keep it that way........just like today.
Interesting......none of what I just wrote is my words.....they are a paraphrase of Bill Cosby.

Let's just get on with life.

Another question maybe for another thread......."Should COGOP apologize to individuals they kept out of the church for things they now allow? Same principle as I see it.

[ImaPK]

PG said

Your next door neighbor is a decent sort and treats you okay -- not your best buddy, but politely cordial. But his grandpa, now deceased, raped and assualted your grandmother. Every time you look at him, the anger rises up and you feel resentment. Would it help you, at least a bit, resolve your feelings if he came over and said "Look, I am not personally responsible for the wrong done, but when I think about what grandpa did, I am so ashamed and really feel bad. No apology can ever undo the wrong done, but I want you to know, from me to you, that I am sorry, and I hope you can start to look at me as your friend and neighbor, and not a reminder of my families' terrible sin against your family."

And what if I don't accept his apology? Does that give me the right to teach my kids to resent and hold a grudge against his family? What if I demand monetary reparations from his family for his grandfather's crimes, does he "owe" me? I'm sorry, I "didn't do the crime" so I "don't do the time". All this is is more "political correctness". I'm sorry for what my ancestors might or might not have done prior to 1863 but like a couple have already said, "GET OVER IT." Work on today's problems.

[Jennifer Smith]

I am quite certain that some of your black friends would disagree with me. That is my point exactly.

You seem to assume something about my friends. They aren't of the type who would say anything much about the racism they experience to anyone. Church members who willingly did outreach in the redneck neighborhood where they knew by experience they were hated. A friend whose husband helped to minister in a church where he is persecuted because of race. They won't say much but I see and I have heard enough to know it is real. Racism is still alive and well in America. It's alive in our churches, unfortunately. I don't mean you, and this is probably not popular to say, but it makes me sad to see traces of this in our CoGoP churches.

An apology is not affirmative action. It is saying I'm sorry, for the sins of my fathers, I'm sorry and I'm not going to do the same to you, I'm not going to treat you as though you were less. I won't be prejudiced against you, but I'll get to know you, and I will love you as a child of God.

[Pastor Gary]

And what if I don't accept his apology? Does that give me the right to teach my kids to resent and hold a grudge against his family?

No. A sincere apology offered passes the burden of responsibility on to the offended person to either accept or reject... but in either case move on. That's why I will apologize to anyone, any time, for anything; it releases me and places the ball in their court.

What if I demand monetary reparations from his family for his grandfather's crimes, does he "owe" me?

No. Reparations is a far different matter from sincere repentance. I would argue that 2 or 3 generations of affirmative action programs have satisfied that and served to equal the playing field for those who want to be in the game --- and yet, the MORAL responsibility remains.

I'm sorry, I "didn't do the crime" so I "don't do the time". All this is is more "political correctness".

No, Mike -- it is SPIRITUAL correctness. I values my spiritual heritage more than my southern heritage; my heavenly passport more than my American citizenship.

I'm sorry for what my ancestors might or might not have done prior to 1863...

You should have stopped right there and called it an apology.

[sweetpea]

How can I apologize for something I didn't do,I can't help what the past generations may or may not have done.

In all likely-hood,there were as many white people that were slaves or at least treated like slaves. I have heard tales of how the richer farmers would treat the poorer share-crop farmers and other things about the poorer person getting a lest chance of getting better jobs,etc. Even when I was in school(a long,long,time ago) you could stand back and just know who would get the best school play parts,cheerleaders,and anything else that came up. I believe we all have had a taste of prejudice acts and maybe not being treated as we should have been treated.

I knew Dr Ron would find a way to say something about the COGOP.we do need to get over it and move on,but I do agree the native Americans did get the short end of the stick,now that's who needs an apology

[Pastor Gary]

"Should COGOP apologize to individuals they kept out of the church for things they now allow? Same principle as I see it.

I'd say "YES" we should, and I have tried as much as possible to do my part.

[ImaPK]

PG said

ImaPK wrote:
And what if I don't accept his apology? Does that give me the right to teach my kids to resent and hold a grudge against his family?

No. A sincere apology offered passes the burden of responsibility on to the offended person to either accept or reject... but in either case move on. That's why I will apologize to anyone, any time, for anything; it releases me and places the ball in their court.

Ah that was what I was trying to say. You apologize, I reject. I'm not moving on, I'm not getting over it. I want to pass it on to my kids and them to their's until a 150 years down the road I can demand an apology from your descendants. as Dr Ron said at the end of the war a mule and forty acres was offered to every former slave. That, to me, was the apology AND reparation. Blacks, today, need to get over it and move on. People, both black and white, need to work on today's problems of prejudice, racism and bigotry not DWELL on what happened pre-1865. We(Americans) have learned from those mistakes. There are no legal slaves in this country that I'm aware of. Do we still have prejudice and racism and bigotry today? YES. And that's what we all need to work on. Lincoln abolished slavery and gave them a chance to make something out of their lives. There were those-like as been mentioned-that took that chance and "ran with it" and made something out of their life. My best friend in high school was black so believe me when I say that I am not prejudice but I'm tired of so many blacks "crying" that "the white man owes me". Your life is what you make of it, good or bad. Work hard to get what you want. "Get your foot inside the door" and then it's up to you. This holds true in the USA no matter what your race is or where you started out in life. Read about Cosby's life. Or Winfrey's life. Or Aaron's life. Or Mays' life. Or Robinson's life. All famous BLACK people who came from poor backgrounds and made something of themselves. Without an apology I'm sure. Read about Nixon's life. Or Clinton's life. Or Mantle's life. All famous WHITE people who came from poor backgrounds and made something of themselves. Without apologizing I'm sure. If I do someone wrong I apologize. I don't expect my son or my mother or my brother to do it for me because THEY DID NOTHING WRONG, I DID. And to expect me to apologize for something my ancestors might have done is, to me, stupid, because, for all I know, my ancestors might not be sorry for what they done 150 years ago. Spiritually or not.

[JanB]

How can I apologize for something I didn't do,I can't help what the past generations may or may not have done.

In all likely-hood,there were as many white people that were slaves or at least treated like slaves. I have heard tales of how the richer farmers would treat the poorer share-crop farmers and other things about the poorer person getting a lest chance of getting better jobs,etc. Even when I was in school(a long,long,time ago) you could stand back and just know who would get the best school play parts,cheerleaders,and anything else that came up. I believe we all have had a taste of prejudice acts and maybe not being treated as we should have been treated.

I knew Dr Ron would find a way to say something about the COGOP.we do need to get over it and move on,but I do agree the native Americans did get the short end of the stick,now that's who needs an apology

Ditto to every word that SweetPea said. I could not have said it better.

[justsam]

I'm pretty sure the question asked was "should states apologize for slavery"; not should you personally apologize for slavery.

Since the individual states allowed or disallowed slavery in the US, those individual states were responsible and accountable for abrogating their duty to protect the rights of the enslaved, and should, at the very least, apologize for doing so.

God Bless You- Sam Smith

[Mike Vande]

Would it help you, at least a bit, resolve your feelings if he came over and said "Look, I am not personally responsible for the wrong done, but when I think about what grandpa did, I am so ashamed and really feel bad. No apology can ever undo the wrong done, but I want you to know, from me to you, that I am sorry, and I hope you can start to look at me as your friend and neighbor, and not a reminder of my families' terrible sin against your family."

No. Not really at all. In fact, I would find that sort of thing an attempt to unburden a conscience or consciences onto me, and attempt to garner cheap grace at my expense. The only real rapproachement for sin begins when the injured decides to forgive, regardless of the actions of the injuror.

If we really wanna get biblical about it, the bible says, the soul that sins pays for it's sin by dying. It's...I don't know, silly or arrogant or just stupid, or all three to think that this generation doesn't have enough of it's own racial sins to repent of that it can take on anothers', and that's on all sides of every racial line.

.

[Cpt. Jack]

In my opinion apologizing will accomplish nothing but make an admission of guilt. This is the desired result. Next, after the apology will be the call for reparations in a much greater manner. This is a MONEY issue not one of someone being offended. I AGREE WITH DR RON THEY NEED TO GET OVER IT.

Cpt Jack