Opinions please

[scooter]

What was created man like without exterior influence?

What does your Bible say?

Response: Nice dodge.

I love the way you attempt to portray that one scripture Romans 1 details the entire nature of humanity. It does a disservice to your argument. As well does the continued regergitation of the shock value of Jesus being raped. I get it. People "in Christianity" say stupid things and we can count on you to ride it into eternity.

I don't agree with this fellow. As I said I do not know of his teachings.

I do know that ignoring the fact that the devil is real, that posession is real, that there are powers of darkness at work in this world is not the solution.

I don't fear or worry or give undue strength to our enemy. I don't imagine that he has no strength given him either. I don't ascribe any power to him that is unbiblical. I get that people are drawn away of their own lust. It does not negate that scriptural facts of demonic influence.

Baal's influence took quite a few people to their death both physically and spiritually through imaginations and deception. We know, if we know anything that the same spirit that worked through Baal is at work today. Not the actually entity Baal but the one behind his actions.

The Bible paints a pretty picture of man before outside influences.

[Gerald Creasy]

The Bible paints a pretty picture of man before outside influences.

I think your dealing with those imaginations you talk about.

Again 1 Tim says Adam was not deceived.

YOU are saying he was pushed.

Which shall I believe?

[scooter]

The Bible paints a pretty picture of man before outside influences.

I think your dealing with those imaginations you talk about.

Again 1 Tim says Adam was not deceived.

YOU are saying he was pushed.

Which shall I believe?

Response: You should believe me since you have taken one verse out of context, to prove your supposed point. Should the context understand that it was first Eve that was deceived and that the point was about women? I haven't looked at it today, but I find it slpitting hairs to put forward that Adam, who the scripture ascribes to bringing sin upon mankind, was not deceived.

After looking at it, his was a transgression brought on by listening to his wife, who was infulenced by the devil.

Again I asked what was man like before that?

Or for that matter, what is man supposed to be like after Christ?

What is your point? That men were fallen before outside influence?

[paul]

The fact that the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty through God seems to put us in the position of using those weapons.

[Gerald Creasy]
How far does that go?

Do we pray against demons?

Exorcise cities?

Ward of people with charms and lockets?

There is no need for superstition. No warrant for it in scripture. And you can't excuse it by twisting scripture.

Many Christians today don't even acknowledge that there is a war on, let alone teach to endure like a good soldier or fight any fight.

Most Christians, hmmm? There is a war on indeed: To bring people back to a grounding in scripture and not an enslavement to warrantless superstition.

To me there are extremes on both sides of the issue.

1. A devil behind every doorknob.

2. No battles of spiritual significance after a one time profession of faith.

Both are just as false as the other just on differing extremes.

Even so, because there are extremes does not negate the fact that an extra-Biblical or NON-biblical statement has been made.

Baal was An IDOL. A thing of wood or stone.

Now what has this Pentecostal made him into?

Do you really thing God is happy that an Idol is being feared in a day when his spirit has been poured out?

Nonsense and the babbling of idiots.[/quote]

Gerald, you might need to take some time and go with me to some countries where pagan God's are worshipped. Where demonic spirits are real and control people lives. where curses are more than imaginary.

No forces on earth or in the heavenlies are more powerful than Christ. Who has been given a name above every name. But to negate the power of darkness, the power that people give these idols is foolishness on anyones part.

I do not know to what extent you have traveled, or been involved in waring against spiritual powers of darkness. But I have seen entire villages, and locales controled by idol worship. I have seen nations trapped in poverty and confussion because of the spiritual powers of idol worship.

I kow, Gerald, some how I have probably twisted your words again. Must be nice to live in some type of non-reality, self imposed or should I say self built sphere of pentecostal utopia.

[Gerald Creasy]

I do not know to what extent you have traveled, or been involved in waring against spiritual powers of darkness. But I have seen entire villages, and locales controled by idol worship. I have seen nations trapped in poverty and confussion because of the spiritual powers of idol worship.

I kow, Gerald, some how I have probably twisted your words again. Must be nice to live in some type of non-reality, self imposed or should I say self built sphere of pentecostal utopia.

Not twisting words, but sloppy logic.

It is a great leap from saying there is a demonic force to saying that an idol from thousands of years ago has power enough to destroy a nation.

Surely you can see a difference.

I know Scooter can too. He just loves to muddy waters and cast aspersions upon any opinion I hold.

Whatever YOU have witnessed EVEN YOUR experience has to be subject to scripture.

Or do you define scripture by what you experience?

[Gerald Creasy]

Response: You should believe me since you have taken one verse out of context, to prove your supposed point. Should the context understand that it was first Eve that was deceived and that the point was about women? I haven't looked at it today, but I find it slpitting hairs to put forward that Adam, who the scripture ascribes to bringing sin upon mankind, was not deceived.

After looking at it, his was a transgression brought on by listening to his wife, who was infulenced by the devil.

Again I asked what was man like before that?

Or for that matter, what is man supposed to be like after Christ?

What is your point? That men were fallen before outside influence?

I have taken nothing out of context.

WHAT CONTEXT makes the statement ADAM WAS NOT DECEIVED into ADAM WAS DECIEVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The POINT is clear if you would choose discourse over the seeking to defame and denigrate: ADAM CHOSE to follow his wifes descision.

[scooter]

I have taken nothing out of context.

WHAT CONTEXT makes the statement ADAM WAS NOT DECEIVED into ADAM WAS DECIEVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.

Response: And your point is ??? That there are no spiritually deceptive entities for men just women? That we shouldn't be concerned with deception??

How does your point relate to the discussion???

What are you trying to say??

That this fellow is way off base because he ascribed Baal as a name to the things that are going on?

That the devil isn't real that men are simply natural brute beast on their own?

That there are no spiritual powers which could deceive a nation?

Spit it out.

It seems to me you are saying that since God is soveriegn there is no "god of this world" or spiritually deceptive influences which are similiar to the days of Baal or Jezebel to be concerned about. It just seems to me that you have desensitized yourself to clear biblical facts in an effort to point out another's flaws.

[Gerald Creasy]

Response: And your point is ??? That there are no spiritually deceptive entities for men just women? That we shouldn't be concerned with deception??

How does your point relate to the discussion???

YOU were the one who brought the topic of the FALL into the discussion.

WHAT was YOUR point?

What are you trying to say??

I have said it plainly and multiple times.

If you werent so all fired up to blindly backstab everything I say, You MIGHT have a little understanding.

That this fellow is way off base because he ascribed Baal as a name to the things that are going on?

He didnt choose a name. He said it WAS with taking an IDOL from Ancient History and giving it demonic life and power.

MY POINT IS: THERE IS NO SCRIPTURAL BASIS.

NONE.

NOT A SHRED.

IT IS ABSOLUTELY ASTOUNDING THE THINGS PENTECOSTALS SWALLOW WITHOUT QUESTION AND WITHOUT SCRIPTURAL BASIS!

That the devil isn't real that men are simply natural brute beast on their own?

That there are no spiritual powers which could deceive a nation?

Spit it out.

Spitting (with disgust)

Rom 13:1 ¶ Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

So IF you believe a demonic being named Baal controls the USA AND believe Romans 13:1 you believe that GOD has APPOINTED BAAL to deceive the USA.

You comfortable with that?

If Sheets believes Baal has deceived America, the answer is NOT praying AGAINST Baal.


The answer is spreading the gospel.

It seems to me you are saying that since God is soveriegn there is no "god of this world" or spiritually deceptive influences which are similiar to the days of Baal or Jezebel to be concerned about. It just seems to me that you have desensitized yourself to clear biblical facts in an effort to point out another's flaws.

Clear Biblical Facts?

Your "clear biblical facts" still are tinged with mama said hearsay and Bible-less superstition.

Rom 13:1 ¶ Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Oh wait! Paul was wrong here Baal is in control of America Not God. Lets cut ThAT scripture out of the Bible.

[KBevangelist]

Gerald, you might need to take some time and go with me to some countries where pagan God's are worshipped. Where demonic spirits are real and control people lives. where curses are more than imaginary.

No forces on earth or in the heavenlies are more powerful than Christ. Who has been given a name above every name. But to negate the power of darkness, the power that people give these idols is foolishness on anyones part.

I do not know to what extent you have traveled, or been involved in waring against spiritual powers of darkness. But I have seen entire villages, and locales controled by idol worship. I have seen nations trapped in poverty and confussion because of the spiritual powers of idol worship.

I agree with Pual on this. I have taken trips to other countries to do missionary work. Entire cities can be controlled by spirits. Most come from idol worship.

Gerald have you ever experienced any of this?

KB

[paul]

I do not know to what extent you have traveled, or been involved in waring against spiritual powers of darkness. But I have seen entire villages, and locales controled by idol worship. I have seen nations trapped in poverty and confussion because of the spiritual powers of idol worship.

I kow, Gerald, some how I have probably twisted your words again. Must be nice to live in some type of non-reality, self imposed or should I say self built sphere of pentecostal utopia.

Not twisting words, but sloppy logic.

It is a great leap from saying there is a demonic force to saying that an idol from thousands of years ago has power enough to destroy a nation.

If you fail to see the demonic spirits at work in all idodity worship, and cannot see what has happened to nations that have followed after them for several thousand years, then you live in a dream world.

Whatever YOU have witnessed EVEN YOUR experience has to be subject to scripture.
Or do you define scripture by what you experience?

By all means...what I have experienced and seen and have been involved in, lines up with the Word of God. One would be in great peril, if he/she approached it any differently. Surely you can see that.

BTW, what have you experienced in this realm ?

[Gerald Creasy]

I agree with Pual on this. I have taken trips to other countries to do missionary work. Entire cities can be controlled by spirits. Most come from idol worship.

Gerald have you ever experienced any of this?

KB

HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY SPIRITS? and not by a mindest or superstition or ignorance?

WHAT IS YOUR PROOF?

WHAT DO YOU MEAN CONTOLLED?

IS it the same as saying because some people in certain areas are all Racists that area is under the control of a RACIST spirit??

[KBevangelist]

I agree with Pual on this. I have taken trips to other countries to do missionary work. Entire cities can be controlled by spirits. Most come from idol worship.

Gerald have you ever experienced any of this?

KB

HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY SPIRITS? and not by a mindest or superstition or ignorance?

WHAT IS YOUR PROOF?

WHAT DO YOU MEAN CONTOLLED?

IS it the same as saying because some people in certain areas are all Racists that area is under the control of a RACIST spirit??

Gerald with all do respect, you seem to never answer the questions asked of you, you always come back with more questions.

You were asked "Have you ever experienced any of this?" You skipped out on answering questions asked you again.

There is bibical proof that spirits can control cities. When I have more time I will write out scriptures right now I am working.

KB

[Gerald Creasy]

BTW, what have you experienced in this realm ?

I spent two years and many hours with a person who specialized in Delivering people from Demonic spirits. Even ministering to several BIG NAMES that I won't mention. I've seen people choke and vomit and growl, moan, fight, and enter trance stages.

Was it in a village of grass huts? No.


But that still dosent prove an ancient Idol has power, or that an ancient "god" was actually a real entity.

[Gerald Creasy]

Gerald with all do respect, you seem to never answer the questions asked of you, you always come back with more questions.

You were asked "Have you ever experienced any of this?" You skipped out on answering questions asked you again.

There is bibical proof that spirits can control cities. When I have more time I will write out scriptures right now I am working.

KB

It is not an attempt to dodge or be disengenuous, it is an attempt to understand.

[scooter]

It is not an attempt to dodge or be disengenuous, it is an attempt to understand.

Response:

Revelation 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast [it] into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

Revelation 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft [he be], shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

Revelation 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more,

Now I understand why that you were attempting to remove the voices of Revelations as symbolic.

Nothing behind your back here. Just honest debate.