Offerings, Guest Speakers and Singing Groups

[Mike Vande]

I know churches must get to a size where they just give someone a set amount rather than the whole offering.

I do not know why that would be considered a valid or ethical practice, especially if the singing group or speaker(and the congregation) were not aware of it in advance.

Some groups and speakers make a practice of ministering for a love offering only, rather than charging a set amount. If they are in a small church, they make a small amount, and are willing to accept that. Why should there be a limit on the size of an offereing the recieve for ministering in a large church? It's how they can provide of their families without having to set a lower limit on the size of a congregation they can minister to.

[Shellie]

DeWayne wrote:

Yet I don't know of many Christians who go to work and say "pay me whatever you want."

Circuit Riders?

artists...........who else they have to pay and what expenses they generate.

I understand about artist's expenses and have no problem with a fee, but I view them more as entertainers.

However, I'm still of the mindset that "preachers" should come for love offerings.

I don't know....a "preacher" or speaker coming to share the gospel and charging a fee, to me, is somewhat representative of selling the gospel.

With that aside being out of the way, I think that a set amount is perfectly fine IF the congregation is aware of it.

[DaJudge]

We have a set minimum amount to give. If the offering doesn't meet that amount, we give that set amount. If the offering is bigger than the set amount, the we give the amount of the offering.

Ditto. We do the same.

[Dr. Ron]

I think I will weigh in with this one.... I kinda think that I likely have more experience here than any one on this board.

I lived the "I will come for what ever you give " life for many years....20 to be exact. While my friends were pastoring "limit " churches and "doing " a few meetings in the year, I and my family were on the road full time in evangelism. If you want horror stories about this issue, I can curl your hair with them.

First, a church, like a family, should operate within it's means. If you know that an offering for a speaker is generally $50.00, then by all means the speaker should be told that " we normally see about a $50.00 offering. Then let him decide if he can possibly do that. With gas prices what they are today and food and rooms....(do people actually get rooms provided?) a $75.00 offering is not even logical. If your church is going to invite someone, and you feel that it will bless your church in the future, INVEST, in that person....have a yard sale, sell pies. whatever it takes to get a reasonable amount.

I understand Shellie's post, but it is seriously flawed. If the church you pastored, paid you and Scooter per hour, and expected a certain amount of work for that....how much would you actually make? Granted I don't have a clue ...nor do I have any interest in knowing what you get...but this is just not a reasonable statement...that they should just take whatever they get....you know what it normally is.

And then, there is the issue of WHY you invite people anyway. What is this investment going to provide for my church? Why am I having this person speak? If it is just to be nice and give someone a little help on their vacation expenses , then that is the wrong motive and I abhor that kind of attitude anyway. It is NOT fair to the congregation. I have four preachers on my staff besides me that can outpreach most people I hear on tv...for me to bring someone in ...it has to be extremely important to the vision of this church,....ie Dr. Van Deventer.

As for singing groups, why pay them more than your guest speaker?. Dewayne knows a great deal about this.....I have an Elvis impersonator in my church who gets an unbelievable amount for his shows....he is the top impersonator in business....and people pay big to get him. He does free shows for the church!!!!! But they pay that because he is going to generate big business for them. His last show sold over 12000 tickets. He did live albums in Hawaii...and all that stuff.

Anyway, to the original question.....Do NOT invite anyone without letting them know what to expect.....especially if that is how they make their living.

Paul,I know whereof you speak...I have had unspeakable horrors done to me......

Btw, I know from experience that COGOP is the "cheapest " outfit in ministry! I spoke for a group the other day and the "stipend" was $500.00. In COGOP, they would have said. "We will buy your meal"...and NO I am not bashing your organization.....I have lived that life more than you all.....I have earned the right to make these statements.

So, pick it up guys and become generous!!!!!!

[Dr. Ron]

BTW, Bro. Eddie Griffith used to have a saying that drove me nuts:

He would talk about this issue and would say to us young guys at BTC ( does that date me) ....."Poor preach, poor pay"!!!!

We would all ask after the sessions..."if what he says is true, then how on earth does he live on such a small amount?"""

[MrDanger]

ie Dr. Van Deventer.

Just call him Brian...we all do.

[Shellie]

Dr. Ron wrote:

I kinda think that I likely have more experience here than any one on this board.

Don't you kinda think that about EVERY subject though?


Oh come on.....you did leave me a wide opening.

[pastorables]

I remember once calling about the group Truth. They wanted $20,000 for their entire entourage. I also called about Jeff Fenholt. His secretary offered me the special package: $6,000 plus airline tickets, hotels, and all meals, etc... Finally, a local group, Paid in Full, wanted $1,000 to drive just over an hour.

I don't see anything extreme in these prices.

Possibly not for General Headquarters or a larger church of several hundred people, but these kind of prices generally leave the average church out. That's why many churches would go the "pick-up" singing route, where they could get a class act for a love offering between scheduled events.

I had called about Jeff Fenholt and Truth during my time as State Youth Coordinator under J. E. Brisson. We ended up booking with David Baroni. Brother Brisson would have put me on a boat to China if I would have booked a $20,000 group, or even $5,000.

[Dr. Ron]

As a matter of fact Shellie....I do....thing is .....I actually do!

If you don't want to hear all the sides of the issue.....especially ones that have experience...don't ask the questions...or just say "All of you....except Ron...answer/

I certainly have earned the right to say what I have said...

And Jeff....he has earned the right to be called Dr. Van Deventer....and everyone on here did not go to school with him.

[Dr. Ron]

Sorry Shellie......didn't mean to be mean....

I missed the "small print " thing you added.....

See my "experienced " eyes don't do too well at 1 am

[DeWayneTN]

I understand, Pastorables. I just wanted to give you some perspective of why the groups charge what they do. Like I said, some are certainly bringing home a comfortable living, but a lot of them do not. I also forgot to mention these singers have to pay the 30% self-employment income tax right off the top. I've even heard of singers who have to give 25% of their t-shirt income and food allotments back to their managers.

One artist, at the height of their popularity in a group, brought home around $36K a year. Not what I expected since their name was everywhere. At least one other artist has spelled out his earnings on his web blog in recent years, letting everyone know he was in the 40-60K range.

I struggled with this too through the years, trying to get the best. I asked upfront about why it costs so much. One artist told me that if they're not on tour but doing spot dates, they still have to keep their band members that know the music paid through the year so they can pick up and go with them at a moment's notice.

The Truth honorarium you mention is pricey but as you can imagine, $20k isn't the highest I've heard. Sometimes it's based on how much they want to work. If you have an artist who doesn't want to be a road hog but are sought after, they might have an enormous price that someone who really wants them will pay and make up for the fact they're not keeping the roads hot. One booking agent told me about an artist they were shocked their client turned down $40k to sing two songs at a women's conference. He said she is just very particular about when she wants to travel.

[pastorables]

The Truth honorarium you mention is pricey but as you can imagine, $20k isn't the highest I've heard.

In fairness to Truth, they did have a two bus entourage on the road full time. They had the singers, the brass band, the sound techs, the drivers, etc... My point was more along the lines of an answer to smaller/average churches who will indeed need to be willing to give these groups more than "whatever comes in the plate"... Sometimes trusting God has to be balanced with wisdom.

I once served as pastor to a church of 40 - 50 people who were the most giving people I had ever witnessed. We brought in National Evangelists on a regular basis. I do not remember many offerings under $1,000 which was more then than today. We also were able once to bring in the singing Kindlers. I believe that was around $1,200 plus expenses and I know for a fact that they received extra from some of the members.

[MrDanger]

And Jeff....he has earned the right to be called Dr. Van Deventer....and everyone on here did not go to school with him.

I guess I just need to look at things differently. I don't think degrees earn you respect. You actions and integrity do. I am learning though. From now on, if everyone would please refer to me as "Master Danger". I've earned it you know.

[Shellie]

From now on, if everyone would please refer to me as "Master Danger". I've earned it you know.

I'm going for my Masters. When I earn it, I want to be called Master Shellie. Wait a minute...that's sexist. What's the opposite of Master?

[TW]

I'm going for my Masters. When I earn it, I want to be called Master Shellie. Wait a minute...that's sexist. What's the opposite of Master?

That would make you a mistress. Oops, I mean Mistress.


TW