Family prayed instead of getting medical aid 11 yr old dies

[Jennifer Smith]

It's very confusing to read this conversation, with Gerald replying to Danny with the face of Danny!

Even if I don't understand, I try to respect other people's faith... it is a precious commodity and something that is to pleasing God. I'm sorry about what happened to this couple and their daughter but it doesn't mean Christians should not be proactive in prayer and seeking God for a solution when we have a problem. But, I don't think it is wise to test God by not seeking treatment, unless we have a very clear directive from God.

Wendy, I can't advise you about what to do, but I do feel it is good to be somewhat proactive and vocal with your doctor. Doctors need to know how you are feeling and what your instinct and your body are telling you.

Wendy, if you feel you are lacking faith, ask God to give you a special measure for whatever you are facing. When I receive an encouragement from the Lord, I hold on to that Word God has given me, and it helps me through any difficult times that come my way.

[DaJudge]

It isn't his choice but you keep pushing me towards what I feel and I will throw my coumadin down the toilet and never go back. My intentions today are to tell them that I will NOT take blood thinners for 6 months. I am not going to put a dangerous bandaid on the symptom. They can try to find the problem and I will think about how to deal with that.

FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE, TAKE YOUR COUMADIN!!! Can you imagine FQ trying to raise 8 kids alone??

[one love]

I think this is gettting a little to personal. Wen dont let this bother ya

I feel God can use doctors and he can heal. I dont feel it is wrong to go to a doctor, I have to because of my spinal problems yet if one chooses not to nobody should be able to make them. I do feel this is where this is going. But doctors can not heal anyone only treat them.

Gerald the bible clearly states God can heal anyone at anytime.

[Ilovebigcats]

It isn't his choice but you keep pushing me towards what I feel and I will throw my coumadin down the toilet and never go back. My intentions today are to tell them that I will NOT take blood thinners for 6 months. I am not going to put a dangerous bandaid on the symptom. They can try to find the problem and I will think about how to deal with that.

FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE, TAKE YOUR COUMADIN!!! Can you imagine FQ trying to raise 8 kids alone??

Are you trying to give me some kids?? I only have 6.

If I have sleep apnea then I can be treated with freakin oxygen! Why would I keep talking a LIFE THREATENING drug when all I need is some air down my fat neck. Think before you speak next time!


Back to Gerald's not-so-subtle attack...
It is my lack of faith in myself to reach God for such a request. It is a personally issue that only I can deal with. I have no lack of faith in God. It is in my own personal self that the lack lay.

[Full Quiver]

Gerald, no one said God has to heal or will always heal. You brought that intot he discussion. My question is was the statement wrong that the key to healing is prayer. You seem to think that the key to healing is medical science. Just answer the questions and stop with the attacks. It's real easy to focus on the faults and failures of others and never speak of our own. Do you revel in Wen's physical condition and the fact that she has been in the hospital? Where do you stand with the Lord and His blessings?

[Ilovebigcats]

Do you revel in Wen's physical condition and the fact that she has been in the hospital?

Sure feels that way.

[DaJudge]

Are you trying to give me some kids?? I only have 6.

You have so many, I lose track.

[MOREGODlessme]

Let me take the carnal approach to this thread.
The health industry, the legalized drug dealers in particular, learned their lesson about CURING anything. When they cured polio, they realized that. They lost millions of dollars over that one.
I am convinced that there are cures for many things today. The drug industry just knows that they would lose millions of dollars if they actually cured them. They would make more money off of the drugs needed to "LIVE" with these diseases.
Example, Magic Johnson revealed in 1987 that he was HIV positive. That's over 20 years ago. He is still alive. What is he taking or doing to sustain himself for that long. You never hear about it. But, many become HIV infected and die within 5 to 10 years.
What is the "magic" drug HE is taking?
Sure, I believe that prayer could be sustaining him. But, God has given man such knowledge to put a man on the moon...unless you are a conspiracy theorist and don't believe this. You will never convince me that the drugs or treatments are not out there to "heal" cancer, or heart disease, or whatever else there is that is "treatable."
I have not had a seizure in over a year and a half. I strongly believe that my faith and God's healing power healed me. I have not taken any drugs in that time. But, I still think that there is a cure for it. I was just given drugs to supress it. Not get rid of it. While I took drugs for it, I still had seizures. Just not as often.
Remember the scripture..."a little wine for the stomach's sake..." God gives us medicines to take care of ailments as well. I believe in miracles. My very existence is a miracle. But I also believe God gives us common sense and knowledge to take care of ourselves as well.

[dolfan]

The question is about responsibility, isn't it? Should parents be allowed to leave their childrens' lives in jeopardy in the face of available, accessible medical treatment that routinely manages diabetes? This is not a Wendy and Danny conviction about healing issue; this is a helpless child who has no voice, no choice in the matter.

I think the government needs to leave people alone. BUT, when death is all but certain and all but avoidable, when does the right and liberty of conviction and religion yield to the right under the law to live and the obligation of parents to protect their children???

Seems to me that's the real issue in this, not whether Wendy takes Coumadin, which I hope she does. You may, of course, feel otherwise, Wendy, but Coumadin and other meds helped keep my mother around for several years in relatively good health before she finally succumbed to emphysema and congestive heart failure.

And, I (me, myself and, that is) ask whether my faith in God must be exercised in the form of shunning available care versus the high risk of leaving my child behind. Only you can answer if that is your conviction. But, as I see it, it is no virtue to stand on promises that God is not asking you to rely on. Of all the healing power of God, of all the bible that teaches about God's power to heal, not one example is given of someone being told not to take a practical choice in order to demonstrate that faith. I honestly and humbly do not see where they are opposed to one another. I know we differ there, but I hope you take the medicine.

[Gerald Creasy]

Gerald, no one said God has to heal or will always heal. You brought that intot he discussion. My question is was the statement wrong that the key to healing is prayer.

And that is why I brought the idea of whether God HAS to heal into the discussion: IF the key is Prayer, then pray and be healed.

If the Key to healing is Gods decision, pray and abide by his descision.

You seem to think that the key to healing is medical science.

Look I am due into the neurologist with a condition that is disabling, have suffered a skin condition that needs contiunal steroids to even look like human skin and have bones held together with steel screws.

I am well aware that sceience has not "healed" me. But because of medical science I can walk, I have a knee, I can see, and sometimes my skin looks like real peoples skin.

Just answer the questions and stop with the attacks.

How is asking a question an attack?

It's real easy to focus on the faults and failures of others and never speak of our own.

WHAT are you talking about??

Do you revel in Wen's physical condition and the fact that she has been in the hospital?

What has possessed you? You can't possibly be that much of a knucklehead.

YOU made a statement: Medicine dosent heal on the same day your wife is visiting the doctors for a reoccuring (an serious sounding) condition.
I only wanted clarification as to why you thought Medicine dosent heal, and yet were relying on it at the same time. If it dosent heal, why rely on it?

Where do you stand with the Lord and His blessings?

The Lord blesses whom he wants to bless; sometimes his blessings are seen as such only after the fact.

[one love]

Gerald, no one said God has to heal or will always heal. You brought that intot he discussion. My question is was the statement wrong that the key to healing is prayer.

And that is why I brought the idea of whether God HAS to heal into the discussion: IF the key is Prayer, then pray and be healed.

If the Key to healing is Gods decision, pray and abide by his descision.

You seem to think that the key to healing is medical science.

Look I am due into the neurologist with a condition that is disabling, have suffered a skin condition that needs contiunal steroids to even look like human skin and have bones held together with steel screws.

I am well aware that sceience has not "healed" me. But because of medical science I can walk, I have a knee, I can see, and sometimes my skin looks like real peoples skin.

Just answer the questions and stop with the attacks.

How is asking a question an attack?

It's real easy to focus on the faults and failures of others and never speak of our own.

WHAT are you talking about??

Do you revel in Wen's physical condition and the fact that she has been in the hospital?

What has possessed you? You can't possibly be that much of a knucklehead.

YOU made a statement: Medicine dosent heal on the same day your wife is visiting the doctors for a reoccuring (an serious sounding) condition.
I only wanted clarification as to why you thought Medicine dosent heal, and yet were relying on it at the same time. If it dosent heal, why rely on it?

Where do you stand with the Lord and His blessings?

The Lord blesses whom he wants to bless; sometimes his blessings are seen as such only after the fact.

Gerald I can relate to having plates and screws in your bones i have them in my neck and still suffer with severe pain daily. Im am sorry for your pain and will be praying for you.
on the other hand it does sound as if you are in attack mode, it may not be that way it all...dunno

[dolfan]

Example, Magic Johnson revealed in 1987 that he was HIV positive. That's over 20 years ago. He is still alive.

Actually, wasn't it like in 1990 or 1991?? I remember the news breaking when I was at TC, and I was there from 1990-92. That's my memory and I could be wrong but that's the picture in my head. Seems like I can remember talking with Phil Minter about it that day, matter of fact. I dunno. It doesn't change your point, but I was feeling a little 'trivial pursuit' there.

[INLOVE]

I saw today that the couple where being charged with manslaughter. They turned themselves in.

[stevenson]

To answer the Magic Johnson question...it was November of 1991.

As far as this couple goes, my understanding is that they belong to no particular religous organization and claim to practice no particular faith. That is why charges are being filed and their not being allowed to hide behind the act of religous freedom. If they were for instance, Jehovah Witnesses, I'm told they probably wouldn't be facing charges.

I think charges are appropriate in this case. It'll be interesting to see what happens.