death of the local union

[RamboPreacher]

I was actually told once in a COGOP Church that VFW counted as a lodge...

You were told wrong.

still semi-on-topic, but do you know of any recommendations that supersedes the previous GA minutes that repeatedly say that unions are "absolutely no"t allowed.

I realize that membership requirements are now salvation and the fruit thereof - would that be the decision (in COGOP, anyway)? it seems that the GA minutes in the encyclopedic minutes say that unions are not allowed (discussion started with coal miners union, as I understand).

[forestwalker]

Not quite -- the VFW would not be included in any prohibition against Lodges. The underlying principle is a restriction against joining "Secret Societies" in which an oath of membership is taken that (a) often involves violent consequences for revealing the secrets, and (b) places that group as one's highest allegiance, above faith and Christian Fellowship. Masonic Orders are the classic example.

How does working for the CIA or even the military, any government service really, fall outside of that reasoning?

[dolfan]

Rambo,

I can't answer with authority on the unions question, but if my memory is right, the GA approved an exception to that which allowed union membership. Maybe they completely did away with the whole idea like they did the old teaching against, in blanket fashion, going to war.

Forestwalker,

The CIA doesn't require you not to subjectively believe something inherently exclusive of faith in Christ. I'm not aware of any oath or similar statement or affirmation. That said, I'm sure there are plenty of situations where agents are involved in activity -- for good purposes or bad -- conflict with true faith. All I can say is that God is their judge. I don't know and can't say.

As for the military, there is room for conscientious objection based on sincerely held religious beliefs. You do not enlist to a viewpoint that is anathema to Christian faith.

On the other hand, Masonic rites do require certain oaths of loyalty to the lodge that expressly supersede commitments to the church or even to Christ personally. That's the difference. I'm not sure about groups like Elks Clubs, etc. The only one I know fits that description with any certainty is the Masons.

[RamboPreacher]

Rambo,

I can't answer with authority on the unions question, but if my memory is right, the GA approved an exception to that which allowed union membership. Maybe they completely did away with the whole idea like they did the old teaching against, in blanket fashion, going to war....

Thanks. I see in teh minutes that I have posted and others, that they did "widen" their stance and say that they could belong, if dues were garnished and they had no option, and if they did not participate in any of the meetings. maybe it just "went away" with that.