No Communion for Obama Supporters!

[Tim Elston]

We are trying to determine whether one's morality/Theology affects one's vote and, conversely, whether one's vote is indicative of one's morality/Theology.

I quite doubt that anyone disputes that it does. But I think your initial question was meant to imply that anyone who voted for Obama is morally inconsistent or derelict. I didn't meet you yesterday, Gary, neither was I born afterwards.

It's funny how any time that legitimate question is asked, the knee-jerk response is to point out the perceived moral failings of whichever party is most disliked...

Yes, Jude 2 is quite the funny place. Why should my post be taken to be anything other than a contribution that challenges the implied assumption that the question is only obvious from one perspective?

unjust war/abortion?

Morally equivalent? Yes.

Economic disparity/promotion of perversion?

Systemic, gross economic disparity is perversion.

Capitalism/Socialism?

Morally equivalent? As both are actually practised? Yes. In theory? Yes, too, because in theory both are supposed to be good.

Are all of these moral equivalents?

It depends on how you frame them. A one dollar bill is not the equivalent of a ten dollar bill, but is a ten dollar bill equivalent to eleven one dollar bills? Should a person pay off a $1,000,000 debt before paying off twenty $1000 debts? Which one is more important? Which one can be accomplished the soonest? Is there virtue in accomplishing three small things because they can be accomplished rather than attempting to accomplish one big thing that probably can't? All good questions. Some people calculate the pros and cons differently than others.

Is it possible to have a theoretical discussion that doesn't descend into a partisan sandbox fight?

Not when there are a bunch of partisans present, apparently.

[Pastor Gary]

We are trying to determine whether one's morality/Theology affects one's vote and, conversely, whether one's vote is indicative of one's morality/Theology.

I quite doubt that anyone disputes that it does. But I think your initial question was meant to imply that anyone who voted for Obama is morally inconsistent or derelict. I didn't meet you yesterday, Gary, neither was I born afterwards.

And we have been down this road before; the one in which you presume the motives of posters as if everyone is as clever as you and has a hidden agenda.

I didn't mention Obama. That was intentional. I have members and friends who voted for Obama and I do not question their salvation. Their reasoning skills, perhaps, but not their salvation. You seem to have me confused with the conspiracy-theorists and Obama-as-antichrist people among us. Nope. Not me.

[Tim Elston]

I didn't mention Obama. That was intentional. I have members and friends who voted for Obama and I do not question their salvation. Their reasoning skills, perhaps, but not their salvation. You seem to have me confused with the conspiracy-theorists and Obama-as-antichrist people among us. Nope. Not me.

Fair enough. But I know you don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to weigh abortion as more morally weighty than anything else, and I know you're not a conspiracy theorist. I respect your initial question, even if, knowing the social context here, I saw a presumption in the implied answer, but I thought my interjection was fair, too, if also a little snarky. (I don't like that word.) If you didn't mean the implication I thought I saw, then I am mistaken. This is a good topic.

[Pastor Gary]

But I know you don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to weigh abortion as more morally weighty than anything else, and I know you're not a conspiracy theorist.

You lost me in that sentence, but -- if I understood it:
I suspect we would not all agree on a hierarchical listing of what is the most morally wrong, but I also suspect most people would rank abortion somewhere high on the list, don't you think?

We would agree, probably, that there is such a thing as a just war, with the corollary, an unjust war. We might disagree over the details... which wars are/are not just and why.

[Tim Elston]

I suspect we would not all agree on a hierarchical listing of what is the most morally wrong, but I also suspect most people would rank abortion somewhere high on the list, don't you think?

We would agree, probably, that there is such a thing as a just war, with the corollary, an unjust war. We might disagree over the details... which wars are/are not just and why.

Absolutely.