Thank you, Mr. President

[Sherry]

Otherwise, he has been as good as any president I can recall.

Yeah, I've kind of gathered that killing Iraqi babies in Iraqi mothers' wombs for American strategic purposes doesn't bother you.

Low Tim, about as low as you can go.

You better believe it, YellowRose. Going to war for geopolitically strategic purposes and as much as waving an American flag over the dead Iraqi fetuses and maimed children our unnecessary war caused is as low as pathetic nationalism ever gets. Yeah, George Bush is as good as people who don't give a rip about fetuses where our bombs explode can
remember.

Tim, don't twist my comment to play on your rants. You know perfectly well what I was referring to.

[Tim Elston]

You know perfectly well what I was referring to.

Yeah, you hate the killing of fetuses and the maiming of children, too. Way to be, YellowRose! I'm right with you!

[Sherry]

You know perfectly well what I was referring to.

Yeah, you hate the killing of fetuses and the maiming of children, too. Way to be, YellowRose! I'm right with you!

Go yank someone else's chain.

[MacUser]

Yeah, you hate the killing of fetuses and the maiming of children, too. Way to be, YellowRose!

Classic manipulation of a core Christian issue. Tim.. LOL.. Your brain isn't big enough to muddy this water my friend. I'm sure you proudly support Pro Life candidates right? You always opt for life... huummmm... just like you originally supported McCain? Just like you originally were a Christian? You might change these tomorrow?? Core principles developing my brother.

Yellow rose doesn't engage you because she can see clearly see your personal internal confused anger at yourself and inability to control the events around you. ( Note: You won't control this one either. ) Release the propaganda somewhere where they believe it. On the flip side... We are here to help you understand the true message. Remember this TODAY.. if nothing else..

You WILL acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord and you will bow to him.

Philippians 2:9-11
9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Praise Jesus Christ!! Dwell on that instead... now or later.

[DeWayneTN]

Looks like Fox News' Chris Wallace stood up for Bush at a screening of Frost/Nixon from Ron "Opie Cunningham" Howard. Way to go, Chris!!

http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/ ... s_wallace/

[TC]

Thanks D, great post

[Gerald Creasy]

Yeah, I've kind of gathered that killing Iraqi babies in Iraqi mothers' wombs for American strategic purposes doesn't bother you.

You are an absolute blow hard idiot.

[scooter]

Yeah, I've kind of gathered that killing Iraqi babies in Iraqi mothers' wombs for American strategic purposes doesn't bother you.

You are an absolute blow hard idiot.

Response: Easy now to remember why he was gone. Maybe we can convince Shellie that he is still the same ole same ole.

[pastorables]

If you consider that a good thing, you have no moral authority whatsoever to criticize Obama for doling out money to anyone.

Who said anything about criticizing Obama for this? Show me the line baby! I want my free money. At least I'm willing to work for mine.

Otherwise, he has been as good as any president I can recall.

Yeah, I've kind of gathered that killing Iraqi babies in Iraqi mothers' wombs for American strategic purposes doesn't bother you.

Wow. I'm gone for a few moments, and you really show the love. I don't have a clue what sewer you dug this one from, but you are wrong. Your statement may be true in very isolated circumstances as with any wartime scenario, but I do wonder why you failed to mention the thousands of Iraqi children liberated from the evil oppression of Saddam

Thanks to all my friends who spoke up for me. I'll make sure Obama sends you a check also.

[Tim Elston]

I don't have a clue what sewer you dug this one from, but you are wrong. Your statement may be true in very isolated circumstances as with any wartime scenario

I admit it was an over-the-top way to express the point I was thinking, if only because I didn't elucidate the rationale for it, as I am going to do now. Thought the way I thought it, it was just barely over the top. The point was, and is, that because you abstract the Iraq war away from those it kills and maims into your nationalistic frame of reference, you fail to care about those it kills and maims. Your nationalism is a buffer that sheilds you from empathy. Your priority is to secure an otherwise insecure nationalism at the cost of dehumanizing the victims of a war that you support as a nationalistic impulse. In that sense you really don't care about Iraqi fetuses who die in Iraqi mothers' wombs, even though when presented with them as an abstraction that is not in conflict with your nationalism, you do care, and even though if you were to see their bodies, either dead or maimed, you would care even more.

but I do wonder why you failed to mention the thousands of Iraqi children liberated from the evil oppression of Saddam

This is a good point for you to raise, and I thank you for raising it. Saddam's oppression was indeed evil. And taken by itself, it is good that he has been deposed and killed. In fact, a people may choose to fight a war for freedom at the risk of life and limb, and that choice is a profound and precious one.

That point is in tension with several factors: The US government does not, and did not, invade Iraq for humanitarian reasons. The Iraqi people did not make the choice; we made the choice for them in view of our own interests. The people who stood to gain from Saddam's deposition were already protected by the no-fly zone. Saddam's mass killings were largely in the past and Iraq was relatively stable in the years prior to the invasion. The war destabilized Iraq beyond the immediate oppression of Saddam's killing machine and incited a civil war that threatens long-term instability and factional warfare beyond the toll the Hussein regime was likely to take on life and limb, especially under the constraints of no-fly zone containment. Iraq became a live training ground for al-Qaeda terrorism that would not have existed apart from the invasion. The fight against al-Qaeda would have been more focused and effective without the distraction of the Iraq War.

[scooter]

I admit it was an over-the-top way to express the point I was thinking, if only because I didn't elucidate the rationale for it, as I am going to do now.

Response: I'm glad you can admit it was a fabrication.

The US government does not, and did not, invade Iraq for humanitarian reasons.

Response: Right it was for OIL, profit for DICK, Revenge. What a line of garbage.

[scooter]

Iraq became a live training ground for al-Qaeda terrorism that would not have existed apart from the invasion.

Response: To me that is a tatical advantage and one most libs don't understand.

The war in Iraq did not create al-Qaeda. It did give us a front to freely engage them and they are the less for it. Even if the war gave al-Qaeda a recruitment line, I'm glad it did, so that we could root out such behavior.

The overriding sense of creating a "beachhead" in Iraq against Islamic extremist makes sense to me. I would have done it, but with more intial force.

[pastorables]

The point was, and is, that because you abstract the Iraq war away from those it kills and maims into your nationalistic frame of reference, you fail to care about those it kills and maims. Your nationalism is a buffer that sheilds you from empathy. Your priority is to secure an otherwise insecure nationalism at the cost of dehumanizing the victims of a war that you support as a nationalistic impulse.

Tim,

I am amazed at how well you know my true feelings. With due respect, the truth is that you are setting up a straw man argument here.

War is cruel and people die. That's a harsh reality from the Old Testament to present. Ironically, the forefathers of the Iraqi's were involved in some of those historic battles. Hiroshima was devastating, but so was Pearl Harbor. Should we talk about the Civil War?

Though I know few, I care about each and every person who has ever died or been maimed by war in any capacity. Why are you trying to create discussion that paints my compassion in a negative light? Tim, it seems to me that you are caught in the vortex of war and peace, trying to find a solution that only lines up with your biases concerning the subject.

Blessings,
pa

[MacUser]

Saddam's mass killings were largely in the past and Iraq was relatively stable in the years prior to the invasion. The war destabilized Iraq beyond the immediate oppression of Saddam's killing machine and incited a civil war that threatens long-term instability and factional warfare beyond the toll the Hussein regime was likely to take on life and limb.

I'm glad you are the expert on what Saddam and his killing machine felt like doing next.


I'm glad your amazing authoritative insight knows what level of human killing is acceptable before a dictator is removed.


It's better to die upon your feet than to live upon your knees!
Emiliano Zapata Salazar

[Russell Roberts]

I think Tim has some legitimate points. Christians have to guard against the kind of nationalism that blinded the Pharisees to the identity of the Messiah. Jesus didn't fit their agenda to overthrow Roman oppression so they ultimately nailed the truth to the cross. He offerred the way of peace, but they insisted on revolting. Jesus said that the temple had become a den of 'lestes'. This Greek word, often translated 'thieves' should more properly be translated BRIGANDS. They were those in favor of military revolt.

I have, in the past, been as patriotic and nationalistic as anyone - hence my desire to join the infantry right out of high school. When I subscribed to dispensational theology, I also felt similar convictions with respect to the Nation of Israel. I was prepared to fight and die for that nation until I began to properly understand that ethnicity was irrelevant. What I have seen within Evangelicalism is a misplaced nationalism and a loyalty to the Republican party that I also think is misplaced.

Neither the Democratic nor the Republican parties have the answers to what ails this nation. Do I hate abortion - absolutely. But Christians have tended to allow the politicians to exploit abortion as a hot button issue drawing attention away from other issues that are also important which the Democrats support. I have to admit that, as far as the war was concerned, I still feel quite a bit disillusioned and recognize that the United States has lost a great deal of credibility as well as good will from other nations of the world as a result of it.

Do we ignore the loss of innocent babies in war and simply write them off as collateral damage? Was the war really about WMD's or is it possible that the war served a desire to control the natural resources of the world? These are questions that we must face as Christians and not simply rubber stamp whatever the Republicans, Democrats, Presidents, or whoever proposes without critically questioning their motives and the methods.