Email from Rod Parsley

[one love]

I know this is really not my business but a observation:

Gary said:

Fear-mongering or reality?

which was a direct response to Tim's comment that said:

Kind of like fearmongering knows no limits, isn't it?

So it does appear that you were responding to him PG and I am far from your enemy, I love ya Brother and I would hope by my actions you know that

My apologies for choosing to use a word that Mr. Elston also used. I failed to see the copyright symbol next to his reference. How about this --

"Unjustified fear, or reality?" Better?

As said I must just be clueless to this whole thing.... So carry on

[Tim Elston]

Well Tim I think the fear is I have heard some people that are wanting to use this "hate speech bill" to end any preaching that claims homosexuality is a sin...Sorry for getting side tracked but the issue is the effects this bill could later have.

Kevin, I can appreciate the concern about hate speech being extended to forbid religious expression in churches against homosexuality. I think it is a realistic fear, although I am skeptical that it would ever really play out according to Christians' worst fears, especially in America. that's not to say that some don't advocate and push for extreme religious censorship, but to say that I am skeptical that such a position would ever hold brook in our country.

But the particular bill in question, I read it. I was completely and wholely about physical violence. It's not a hate speech bill. In fact, its language would protect you from physical violence for being a Christian. I mean, I suppose that the Constitution could conceivably be used to forbid Christianity by some ingenious interpretation, but how likely is that? How likely is it that a bill that is from corner to corner about physical violence going to be used to prevent preachers from preaching against homosexuality? They could use laws against murder and theft for that, if they really wanted to, laws as completely unrelated to religious speech as this one is. But the likelihood, it seems to me, is that any bill that would aim to censure religious speech would actually say something about censuring religious speech. This doesn't say anything about that.

As far as friendship with Gary goes, by all means be his friend. All of my friends can be friends with anyone they want, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Gary needs me to be his enemy, so that's why he has branded me as such. I'm not his enemy any more than I am anyone else's enemy, but having respect is a different matter. You, Kevin, have earned the respect I have for you. Gary has lost the respect I used to have for him. And that's his doing, not mine.

Still, though, that's between him and me, and as far as I am concerned my issues with his conduct toward me have no right to infringe on your enjoyment of your friendship with him, and his enjoyment of his friendship with you. I have no doubt that he is a good pastor, swell father, and loving husband, but I also know what it is to be the object of his dark side, and I know from longstanding personal experience that he's got one. But that's what I have to deal with, not you. I'm glad that you are friends with us both, and I appreciate your courage and integrity.

[Brian]

To be fair, PG only made a reference in part to Tim. And it was only one word, not his post in its entirety.

[Pastor Gary]

Gary needs me to be his enemy, so that's why he has branded me as such. I'm not his enemy any more than I am anyone else's enemy, but having respect is a different matter. You, Kevin, have earned the respect I have for you. Gary has lost the respect I used to have for him. And that's his doing, not mine.

"Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?" (Galatians 4:16)

I have no need for Tim Elston, or anyone else to be an enemy; I have plenty who hate me already, thanks. People choose to become an enemy when they resort to ad hominem attacks, make the person the issue rather than debating the issue, constantly impugn the integrity and motives of others... I don't care whether Mr. Elston respects me or not, though I do not feel I have done anything to cause him to DISrespect me except point out areas of disagreement. Tim requested reinstatement to Jude2 with an admission of "a volatile emotional constitution" and I am merely the current target of that emotional volatility. )))SHRUG(((

I have no doubt that he is a good pastor, swell father, and loving husband, but I also know what it is to be the object of his dark side, and I know from longstanding personal experience that he's got one.

You are welcome to cite evidence of my dark side as part of your campaign to publicly discredit my character. Go for it.

[pastorables]

but I also know what it is to be the object of his dark side, and I know from longstanding personal experience that he's got one. But that's what I have to deal with, not you.

Tim,

I started this thread for intelligent discussion concerning an important world-view topic and you have used it as an unscrupulous opportunity to impugn the integrity of our resident Pastor. You have strained at a gnat to seize a perceived opportunity to rebut Pastor Gary's right to participate on his own board how and when he chooses. Your welcome here, just as mine, becomes a trespass when you allow your evil eye to dictate your actions.

Matthew 6:23 - But if your eye is evil, your whole body will be full of darkness. If the light in you is darkness, how dark it will be!

Could it be that your darkened eyesight has produced a darkened view of not only the Light, but those who are full of the Light as well?

pa

[Full Quiver]

Exactly PG. Tim says I am murderous because he cannot back up his own claims of US genocide in the Earth.

[Shellie]

I am just getting to this thread because I was swamped yesterday with a spring dance at our school that I was heading up.

Now that I am here, I am trying very hard to not just push a button on you, Tim.

While your saddening display of vulgarity toward a man of God makes me sick, it does give me a glimpse of the inner demons you wrestle and I do want the board to witness your true self. Give a man enough rope....................................

Some feel that we shouldn't ban you because they wonder what has made you what you have become and how we can help you. I keep telling myself that you do want help because it is YOU that keeps asking for permission to come back. (even though your sabbatical has been your choice)

However, I will not allow you to stay on these reasons alone because this reeks of an uncircumsized Philistine standing in a field defying God by cursing his people.

I will protect Gary's character from someone who has none. One more display of such foul disrespect for a man that has more heart and more love for people than I've seen in your big toe and I will bounce you so fast your head will spin.

[bibleguy]

I am just getting to this thread because I was swamped yesterday with a spring dance at our school that I was heading up.

Now that I am here, I am trying very hard to not just push a button on you, Tim.

While your saddening display of vulgarity toward a man of God makes me sick, it does give me a glimpse of the inner demons you wrestle and I do want the board to witness your true self. Give a man enough rope....................................

Some feel that we shouldn't ban you because they wonder what has made you what you have become and how we can help you. I keep telling myself that you do want help because it is YOU that keeps asking for permission to come back. (even though your sabbatical has been your choice)

However, I will not allow you to stay on these reasons alone because this reeks of an uncircumsized Philistine standing in a field defying God by cursing his people.

I will protect Gary's character from someone who has none. One more display of such foul disrespect for a man that has more heart and more love for people than I've seen in your big toe and I will bounce you so fast your head will spin.

I hate the idea of ever banning a person for at least two reasons:

1) In a discussion where many people come from the same background or point of view, to be fair and to pursue the depth of any discussion, someone often has to play "devil's advocate" and present another view. With people in the mix that actually hold opposing views, then it provides that dimension.

2) You always cling to the hope that some response will flip a switch, and that you will gain a brother.

That said, we cannot carelessly dismiss Paul's admonition in Titus 3:9-11, “But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.”

While Tim can bring some relevant points to a discussion, at some point one must apply Paul's advice and take action.

Like I said, I prefer to keep and participate in boards with very relaxed rules providing for the free flow of ideas, and allowing disagreement. If we are not allowed to disagree to one another openly, we will never be able to come to an agreement. Acts 15 is a classic example of a case when the saints found themselves in "no small dissention and disputation." By having the discussion, after much disputing and hearing both sides and many relevant Scriptures, they were able to come to the truth.

But while such discussion is good and healthy, our hope to gain a brother must not blind our eyes and prevent proper action when it comes to the chronic heretic.

[Dr. Ron]

Shellie I agree with you. Tim is a sad person. He has no one in his life to share his innermost struggles with. While we have the Lord, he has no one. So he hops onto this board and God knows how many others to get some kind of relational satisfaction.

I pity him. I wish he could get past his own ego. He seems to understand Mr. Obama so well because they share the same self love......they know of no one worthy of them but themselves.

Tim knows he is not right. He is that intelligent. He just needs this sparring to give himself some modicum of self assurance.

God help him. But it is fun to watch his tirads..I kinda find them funny....and I agree with PA and FQ......I think he is an unapologetic liberal who believes in abortion and gay rights.

[dolfan]

This whole thread was about a topic, not about Pastor Gary. He didn't ask to be called a liar. He just commented on something, which is what this whole board is, right? Good grief.

Tim, we get along just fine, but I've gotta call foul on this one. You're picking a fight here that doesn't need to be picked. The man owns the board, commented on a topic posted on it, and even if it was in response to yours on some level, it doesn't mean that he was crossing his own line about interacting with you. The lines are his. This whole thing's his. When I play in someone's yard, I don't second-guess it if they come out into their yard, and I don't take it personally if they comment on the weather and I happen to be in a not-so-sunny disposition toward them.

I did pick up a cat by the tail in 1997 when I thought I was doing it a favor in rescuing it from a big dog. The cat's dead by now, but I've still got scars from it. I don't pick up cats by their tails anymore, even desperate ones. That's not a veiled or unveiled reference to you. It's just an object lesson in picking your battles and your rescues.

Just let it go.

[Full Quiver]

I asked you whether I am still banned from speaking to you. You forbade me from doing so on threat of being banned. But since that time you have directly replied to me on three or four occasions. It was on the board for all to see.

I take from your reply that I'm still gagged. Carry on, then. Everyone with half an eye open good and well knows when you are replying to me. I have little respect for your cheap, disingenuous reactions to me, so it's probably best that you gag me, anyway.

Tim, if he was replying to you then most of your responses and topics are directed at PG. He is a Christian and you consistently challenge the faith of all Christians, our belief systems, our policies and politics, as well as our morals and judgments. In other words if you attack one you attack all.

[MacUser]

Shellie I agree with you. Tim is a sad person. He has no one in his life to share his innermost struggles with. While we have the Lord, he has no one.

Dr. Ron, I almost agree and take it a bit farther. I think our Lord and Savior is calling Tim BACK and he's kicking and screaming at that loving embrace on his heart.

Ron.. I'll go farther and state that soon Tim will be saved AND come back and apologize to all here for his harsh words.

Tim is going to have an amazing testimony and will win many for Jesus. He will even meet a female love of his life, get married and start a whole new phase and experience what we already know.

God is GOOD! You heard it here first.

[Pastor Gary]

Shellie I agree with you. Tim is a sad person. He has no one in his life to share his innermost struggles with. While we have the Lord, he has no one.

Dr. Ron, I almost agree and take it a bit farther. I think our Lord and Savior is calling Tim BACK and he's kicking and screaming at that loving embrace on his heart.

Ron.. I'll go farther and state that soon Tim will be saved AND come back and apologize to all here for his harsh words.

Tim is going to have an amazing testimony and will win many for Jesus. He will even meet a female love of his life, get married and start a whole new phase and experience what we already know.

God is GOOD! You heard it here first.

From your lips to God's ears. I think almost everyone on Jude2 hopes you are a prophet in this.

[EagerBeaver]

Shellie I agree with you. Tim is a sad person. He has no one in his life to share his innermost struggles with. While we have the Lord, he has no one.

Dr. Ron, I almost agree and take it a bit farther. I think our Lord and Savior is calling Tim BACK and he's kicking and screaming at that loving embrace on his heart.

Ron.. I'll go farther and state that soon Tim will be saved AND come back and apologize to all here for his harsh words.

Tim is going to have an amazing testimony and will win many for Jesus. He will even meet a female love of his life, get married and start a whole new phase and experience what we already know.

God is GOOD! You heard it here first.

From your lips to God's ears. I think almost everyone on Jude2 hopes you are a prophet in this.

I do, for one.

[one love]

Shellie I agree with you. Tim is a sad person. He has no one in his life to share his innermost struggles with. While we have the Lord, he has no one.

Dr. Ron, I almost agree and take it a bit farther. I think our Lord and Savior is calling Tim BACK and he's kicking and screaming at that loving embrace on his heart.

Ron.. I'll go farther and state that soon Tim will be saved AND come back and apologize to all here for his harsh words.

Tim is going to have an amazing testimony and will win many for Jesus. He will even meet a female love of his life, get married and start a whole new phase and experience what we already know.

God is GOOD! You heard it here first.

I pray that he does come back to the Lord and his life is full of joy. He is a very intelligent man that could do great things for God. Whether he is saved or not I count him as a friend and Love him. I have disagreed with him and he has disagreed with me, that is what we do here.

I know there has been name calling and everyone is upset over that, I understand and agree. PG is a good man that I love as well, but I have also seen some post here (also different threads) that insults Tim as well.
I dont know what has happened between him and PG but I don't think everyone gathering together against him is right! PG is a very intelligent man as well and I am sure he is thankful that everyone loves him so much, but no matter how harsh you think someone is (saved or unsaved) all you can do is forgive and love them.
Insult's hurt! I have been insulted here many times, I have no grudge with anyone that has insulted me REPEATEDLY and never had everyone come to jump to my defense, actually some gathered together against me and defended the one that did the insulting( but when you don't agree with someone that happens, people get angry for whatever reason) many times. I still love the people and talk to them through emails from time to time. (they are Christians)
I have walked away from my computer shocked that someone could be so hurtful and speak in such a way to a fellow brother in Christ. Yes I was called a , Liar, idiot, stupid, in a cult, etc.....

With all this said I believe all Tim was saying that he saw PG respond to his post, I guess somewhere there must be a post that says PG was not going to respond to him....I DONT KNOW what has happened between the two at all. I do not approve of the things that have been said to PG and I don't like the way things are being said to Tim either.
I have been on both sides, being insulted and being ganged up on as well, either is very unpleasant.

I pray that God can heal whatever has happened between the two and let them handle it.

Until them I love ya Both!