onelove???

[TW]

I think that Paul did indeed believe himself to have been chief among sinners. However his sin was not murder, it was legalism. He, as Saul, failed to understand the two greatest Commandments. The Commandments on love, the Commandments that Jesus said the rest of the Law hung upon.

My point in bringing up this thread is that all to often we make statements about the scriptures that cannot be supported by scripture. Onelove called Paul a murderer, however scripture does not support this. Yes, Paul was present at the time when Stephen was stoned. Did he take an active part? No! Was he even a member of the Sanhedrin? Scripture does not place him in that body. Yes he was a Pharisee, but not all Pharisees were members of the Sanhedrin. The only thing that scripture says is that he was present, and approved of the stoning of Stephen. We must always strive to present our arguments based in truth.


TW

[JohnDB]

John, I never read where God instructed the Israelites to lay down their law, discipline, etc. for any reason, nation, or man. That's a technicality. Sure they might have to answer to the Romans for this but they felt like they were doing the Lord's work by stoning Stephen and as far as they knew they were.

Ge 49:10 The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs and the obedience of the nations is his.

This is the prophetic verse in Genesis where the Jewish leaders got their authority and believed that they had the right to capital punishment until the time of the Messiah. Their losing the right to execute capital punishment (for sabbath violations, blasphemy, and adultery) was removed by the Roman Empire. They mourned the loss for three weeks according to Josephus. It never occured to them that the Messiah was actually there.

Paul was just as guilty as the rest of them...he was holding their cloaks so they wouldn't get blood on them...meaning he was kinda directing the stoning of Stephen...as the representative of the Sanhidrin who wouldn't get personally involved.

[Full Quiver]

Paul's words were he consented to Stephen's death.

I believe he was most definitely a member of the Sanhedrin. He was taught by the best and was obviously a high profile leader of the Jewish congregation before his conversion. If memory serves me correct the usage of the word elder in the NT reflects on members and/or former members of the Sanhedrin. Then again Saul was most likely just an agent of the actual court, more of an executive member of the govt. instead of a judicial but he obviously carried out judgment in the field so one is to wonder.

Your point is well taken though TW that we can't put words in the Lord's mouth. HE never said Paul was in fact a murderer.

[RamboPreacher]

I think that Paul did indeed believe himself to have been chief among sinners. However his sin was not murder, it was legalism. He, as Saul, failed to understand the two greatest Commandments. The Commandments on love, the Commandments that Jesus said the rest of the Law hung upon.

My point in bringing up this thread is that all to often we make statements about the scriptures that cannot be supported by scripture. Onelove called Paul a murderer, however scripture does not support this. Yes, Paul was present at the time when Stephen was stoned. Did he take an active part? No! Was he even a member of the Sanhedrin? Scripture does not place him in that body. Yes he was a Pharisee, but not all Pharisees were members of the Sanhedrin. The only thing that scripture says is that he was present, and approved of the stoning of Stephen. We must always strive to present our arguments based in truth.


TW

thanks TW.
we may believe one thing or another about various aspects of Christianity, but that needs to be separated from what the Word of God actually says.

We can draw conclusions based in our internal biases (EVERYONE has bias in one way or another, that is part of being human). We can extrapolate from scripture what we interpret, but if the Word doesn't specify it, it is a belief/opinion.

I have heard many say that the Bible says that the earth was created "some 6000 or so years ago". where is that in scripture? it isn't; it is an extrapolation of various genealogical references. which is interesting in and of itself since the Bible is NOT a genealogical record, though contains some lists in genealogy. (it is not a science book, but contains some references of science; it is not a history book, but contains much verifiable historical information)