Jeremiah 1:5

[scooter]

I simply came to the studied and prayerful conclusion that Jeremiah 29:11 is one of those verses that we can't remove from its context to apply more broadly in the sense of knowing "God's plan for our lives". It is not a personal statement, it is a statement to the people as a whole of Judah. To make it personal, in my understanding of it, is to misapply it.

I don't fault anyone for doing so, but I won't agree with it.

Response: That's just it though ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE DIED too.

God's will. To me it is more dangerous to exclude the scripture from having current value than to include it.

God's plan far exceeds this life. God's will far outlasts this life. So I'll see the verse for that. He knows his plan for me whether or not I do. ; )

AND IT"S GOOD!

[pastorables]

Now, I fully get you on the point, though, about so limiting scripture to context that the fuller point of the truth of it is missed. You know, we read a lot of applications by Jesus of scriptures that, if we were simply reading them without the light of His comments on them, we would never apply them to Him because of their context. At the same time, we have a duty to the Bible to rightly divide it. I simply came to the studied and prayerful conclusion that Jeremiah 29:11 is one of those verses that we can't remove from its context to apply more broadly in the sense of knowing "God's plan for our lives". It is not a personal statement, it is a statement to the people as a whole of Judah. To make it personal, in my understanding of it, is to misapply it.

I don't fault anyone for doing so, but I won't agree with it.

Dolfan,

I get your heart. I really do. Likewise, I do believe that Jeremiah 29:11 has been misused and misapplied at times by the "word of faith" community.

Having said this, most of the Bible is written in context and relationship to some person, place, event, city, nation, etc...

If we become too religious about defending the Bible on the point of context alone, we would be hard pressed to find anything to live by or apply to our Christian walk today.

Is the Bible then just an historical book and not for our communion with God today? I don't believe so.

Btw, I dreamed about being in church with you last night. I don't have a clue ---

Blessings,
pa

[dolfan]

Now, I fully get you on the point, though, about so limiting scripture to context that the fuller point of the truth of it is missed. You know, we read a lot of applications by Jesus of scriptures that, if we were simply reading them without the light of His comments on them, we would never apply them to Him because of their context. At the same time, we have a duty to the Bible to rightly divide it. I simply came to the studied and prayerful conclusion that Jeremiah 29:11 is one of those verses that we can't remove from its context to apply more broadly in the sense of knowing "God's plan for our lives". It is not a personal statement, it is a statement to the people as a whole of Judah. To make it personal, in my understanding of it, is to misapply it.

I don't fault anyone for doing so, but I won't agree with it.

Dolfan,

I get your heart. I really do. Likewise, I do believe that Jeremiah 29:11 has been misused and misapplied at times by the "word of faith" community.

Having said this, most of the Bible is written in context and relationship to some person, place, event, city, nation, etc...

If we become too religious about defending the Bible on the point of context alone, we would be hard pressed to find anything to live by or apply to our Christian walk today.

Is the Bible then just an historical book and not for our communion with God today? I don't believe so.

Btw, I dreamed about being in church with you last night. I don't have a clue ---

Blessings,
pa

I am with you. No objections

[Gerald]

The questions being missed:


If the APPLICATION of a scripture is ripped from context and APPLIED to people today, what is the warrant for so doing?

I am suspiscious of those who rip whatever scripture that gives ME power, blessing, honor, glory etc etc and DENY or IGNORE those passages which are about how believers suffer.

There is so much about this that can be seen by an objective observer.

The underlying theme is "Come to Christ and your life will be BETTER!"

THAT is not the Gospel. SOme come to Christ and NEVER have something BETTER, NEVER have peals of emotional orgasms during "worship", NEVER have deliverance from troubling issues in life, NEVER see family saved, and even HAVE trouble and suffering in excess.

CHRSITIANITY as is being preached is becoming a reinforcement of the beautiful and successful and one of the tools in that transformation is the preaching (ripped from context) of BLESSING passages and the excising and ignoring of Suffering passages (and the demonization of those that point them out as crazy and toxic).

[scooter]

The questions being missed:


If the APPLICATION of a scripture is ripped from context and APPLIED to people today, what is the warrant for so doing?

I am suspiscious of those who rip whatever scripture that gives ME power, blessing, honor, glory etc etc and DENY or IGNORE those passages which are about how believers suffer.

There is so much about this that can be seen by an objective observer.

The underlying theme is "Come to Christ and your life will be BETTER!"

THAT is not the Gospel. SOme come to Christ and NEVER have something BETTER, NEVER have peals of emotional orgasms during "worship", NEVER have deliverance from troubling issues in life, NEVER see family saved, and even HAVE trouble and suffering in excess.

CHRSITIANITY as is being preached is becoming a reinforcement of the beautiful and successful and one of the tools in that transformation is the preaching (ripped from context) of BLESSING passages and the excising and ignoring of Suffering passages (and the demonization of those that point them out as crazy and toxic).

Response: You mean like come unto me my yoke is easy and my burden is light? That gospel? Yeah never would want to give anyone that impression.

I know what you are talking about. I disagree with "prosperity" preaching per se. I disagree that it is "all of what pentecostals preach".

You just gag on it to the point where you have no healthy input.

If a person suffers because they are a jerk it serves them right.

That has nothing to be with suffering for the gospels sake even if they are talking about the gospel. The absence of love is the devilish doctrine you should be combatting. The absence of fruit is another.

Prosperity, a better life, etc. is not a baseless NT teaching.


"Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting."

This is a Jesus teaching in direct relation to what is given up for Him.

This type of thought coupled with "ask and ye shall recieve", "whatsoever things you ask in my name", "If two agree" etc. relays facets of possibilities that go beyond your limited application.

I'm saddened that you feel God has appointed you to be the individual through which all scripture must be interpreted for every preacher.

I'm happy that you have a lazy boy to do it from.

I pray that God gives you beauty for ashes, no wait He only did that once upon a time in the OT.

[Gerald]

If you say to a person "Come to Christ and he will give you a beautiful life" You are a liar.

If you say that Christ blesses EVERYONE who comes to him in beautiful ways you are a liar.

You can NOT pick blessing scriptures and IGNORE suffering scriptures WHICH YOU DO and establish a complete Gospel.

You have been bewitched by FALSE DOCTRINE.

Why dont you just start saying "YOu are the blessed of the Lord."

[scooter]

As always you pick and choose.

You pick GOOD passages and IGNORE those that indicate suffering.

YOU TURN THE GOSPEL INTO A LIE

I am sorry that you have become a sycophant of the bewitched.

Perhaps you can start saying "You are the blessed of the Lord."?

When you find someone hurting just repeat that to them.

When you find someone broken, when you find someone poor, when you find some one crushed by life just chant that.

Either that of "Be filled"

Same difference.

Response: Who said I ignore the other?? You? Any proof??

I thought false accusation would be against even a Geraldintine doctrine.

Guess not!

Since you have and do continually lower yourself to such ignorance it's obvious that you haven't changed into someone that is capable of having a normal dialogue.

I'll tell you I do minister to people like you have described. Everyday.

I have also met plenty of jerks.

People who know how to do everything but do nothing.

The absence of love is devilish. The absence of joy is devilish. The absence of fruit is devilish. No foundation from which pitch any "gospel".

That pretty much sums it up.

I hope you can break free from the prison of you own imagination.

I'm done and you pretty much are too.