Speaking in Tongues

[RamboPreacher]

I am going to reply based on personal experience and actual experience with others.
1. I recieved the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (Baptism of the Holy Ghost) about 6 months after I was born again, and recieved Christ. For 4 of those months I was in attendance of a denomination that didn't even acknowledge the power of the Holy Ghost. The "initial evidence" in my case was a "word of knowledge" and prophecy for another. I didn't start speaking tongues for another week. (I know several others that did not have tongues as THE initial evidence, including my wife)

2. I know some that recieved the Baptism of the Holy Ghost when they came up out of the water at water baptism - with evidence of speaking in tongues.

3. I know of a couple people that recieved the baptism of the Holy Ghost when they recieved Christ, with the evidence of speaking in tongues. And at least one that inturpreted (prior to speaking in tongues, themself) as a prophecy.

4. Usually, though, I have seen the baptism of the Holy Ghost take place at an alter service at some point after salvation that was specifically a time for moving of the Spirit leading in that direction. Since I have yet to lead such a service, adn was not privy to what happened in these prayer lines, I do know that many do speak in tongues as an initial evidence.

[Gerald Creasy]

• Tongues are a valid expression of religious ecstasy.

Can you define "religious ecstacy"?

Many religions work them self up into ecstatic speech.

[Pastor Gary]

Can you define "religious ecstacy"?

Many religions work them self up into ecstatic speech.

I am not sure I can, actually. If one person describes being overwhelmed by the Spirit of God, resulting in ecstatic speech, and another is caught up the joy of the moment and releases a burst of "tongues" in an emotional outburst of ecstatic joy, it can be a fine line of differentiation.

[Who new]

I spoke in tongues the same night I accepted Jesus. I was ten years old. I almost always speak in tongues when I pray. And for that reason I follow the directions in 1 Corinthians 14:13 (if any speak in an unknown tongue let him pray that he may interpret) I often interpret my own tongue talking. Which I find an issue of controversy. However, it has solved a lot of problems. I'm curious to know what some of you think of that.

[Ilovebigcats]

Can you define "religious ecstacy"?

Many religions work them self up into ecstatic speech.

I am not sure I can, actually. If one person describes being overwhelmed by the Spirit of God, resulting in ecstatic speech, and another is caught up the joy of the moment and releases a burst of "tongues" in an emotional outburst of ecstatic joy, it can be a fine line of differentiation.

It is usually accompanied with this....

[Pastor Gary]

It is usually accompanied with this....

That looks choreographed to me. Most of what I have seen attributed to "dancing in the Spirit" has been uncontrolled jerking around. (Hey, you know that verse about the Apostles shouting and dancing in the Spirit? Neither do I.)

[Gerald Creasy]

I am not sure I can, actually. If one person describes being overwhelmed by the Spirit of God, resulting in ecstatic speech, and another is caught up the joy of the moment and releases a burst of "tongues" in an emotional outburst of ecstatic joy, it can be a fine line of differentiation.

I agree. But I think Penecostalism has a preponderance of the latter, rather than the former, especially in circles known to sing the same chorus for an hour.

[Brenda]

My testimony:

It was sometime in March that I got saved.
In April I started attending church.

On January 6th, I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

After I ask for it... all the different scriptures were going through my mind.
Where, Jesus said it is expedient for me that I go away, for if I go not away the comforter will not come. But when he comes he will speak of his self.
He is the leader, guider, power for service... all the scriptures that speak of what he is given to us for.
Then I could image the Holy Ghost coming to me, for he said, he would send it to me. I began to thank Him for it.
Then, it seemed everyone and all the noise around me began to drift off into the distance. When all of a sudden I was in a bright light. Then I came to my self I was speaking in tongues.
I had no control of my tongue, cause everytime I tried to say something to someone it came out in tongues.
This went on for quite a while. When finally I was able to speak to someone in english.
All the while I was experiencing so much joy, joy like I had never had before.

[dave c]

All verses NIV...

1Cor. 14:2 "For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit."

14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind.

14:18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.
19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.

14:28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.

14:39 Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
40 But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

For me, these verses from First Corinthians indicate that Paul is discussing two different manifestations of "tongues" (which are both different from the Second Chapter of Acts "tongues"). Paul would seem to be saying that he, and others in the first century Church, had personal prayer languages that were between the individual's spirit and God...but IN CHURCH, as part of public worship, the acceptable practice was that which was "completed" through interpretation. But that restriction in no way forbids (in fact just the opposite), limits, or defines the "private prayer language".

While believing that God is big and that He can, and will, do whatever He desires--including performing miracles, wonders, and signs--I tend to be cautious when it comes to an over-emphasis of the sign gifts rather than service, giving, etc. (not too many people seem eager to ask God for the gift of celebacy or matyrdom--at least I'm sure not). That said...during one my earliest experiences of someone speaking out in a tongue during a service, I was given part of the interpretation and the pastor's wife (a great and Godly woman whom I love and respect) had the other half. I couldn't argue with the situation's authenticity.

While I frequently pray privately from my spirit to the Holy Spirit, I know a lot of devoted men of God who believe that tongues ended with the death of John. I still count them as much loved brothers in Christ. I like to attend services where the congregation is open to whatever the Holy Spirit would work among us, but I can worship God with His family in Baptist, CofC, Evangelical Free, etc. fellowships.

I started out in an AG church 23 years ago, spent a number of years backsliding--spent the next long time attending very diverse churches for anywhere from 2 years to 4 at a stretch--and have returned to the AG where I feel very much at home. I began seriously studying the Bible about 8 years ago and the more I studied, the more I felt that denominations like AG (and from what I can gather of COGOP and COG doctrines from the postings here) are closer to a Scriptural approach to worship, dicipleship, and evangelism. I have had the honor of "covering" pulpits upon occasion for Baptist, Evangelical, and Methodist churches; but I generally feel like I have to be careful what I say lest I offend my hosts with too much charismatic flavoring. I am a regular jail chaplain for our local detention center and I periodically conduct services for nursing homes--while I don't hestitate to tell them that I am "charismatic", I don't push the issue during those services. On the other hand, teaching a class, or conducting a service in a pentacostal environment is exciting--fun even.

If I suddenly lost the gift of praying in tongues--and there were no more churches where public tongues were practiced--I'd sorely miss it. The same as with miraculous healings and God's divine intervention in the affairs of man--both great and small. My wife and I could be married without experiencing all of the benefits of marriage, but why would we want to? "But Paul was speaking of Christ and His church...."

oh, my. This has turned into a ramble. I've only had 3 hours sleep in the past 24 and it's showing. Time for bed.

God bless you all. Your brother in Christ, dave c

[justsam]

Can someone explain to me Biblically how a person can be born-again and not indwelt by the Holy Ghost?

Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

2Co 1:21-22 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; (22) Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

I believe that a person is indwelt by the Holy Spirit at conversion and that speaking in tongues is the normative (though not necessarily exclusive) manifestation of being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

God Bless- Sam Smith

[Mike Vande]

• None of us completely understands this stuff the way we wish we did.

Boy howdy, is that ever true, and especially on issues like the Gifts of the Spirit, and the manefestations thereof! I have, for example, heard so much plain-and-fancy piffle on spiritual healing, much of it contradictory, that I long ago came to the conclusion that everyone who claims to have the definitive teaching on how to be healed by God is either flat-out lying or just whistling in the dark. And that is just one issue involving pentecostal/charismatic belief and practice that has people confused in and out of C/P circles.

It is self-evident that there are a lot of charlatans who foist false doctrine upon the body as a means of profit, but it goes well beyond that. Most people who claim to be believers are simply not acquainted with scripture well enough to know the difference between good and bad teaching. Some of that is on their own heads. But, some of it is on the heads of the people God has placed in the pulpits, for not knowing the Bible well enough to teach it right. Sometimes it's because all they know about it is their own denominational line and not the whole of scripture. But sometimes, it's becaue they are caught up in whatever new sensation has come down the pike, and are too busy trying to keep the congregation jumping, laughing, falling, prophesying, etc. ad nauseum, to spend time on simple exposition of the scriptures. If the truth of scripture, revealed to men by the Holy Spirit as the Bible itself says it's supposed to be, were actually being taught, it wouldn't eliminate the charlatans. But, they would be stealing a lot less money...

[Brenda]

If the truth of scripture, revealed to men by the Holy Spirit as the Bible itself says it's supposed to be, were actually being taught, it wouldn't eliminate the charlatans.

Amen!

[Pastor Bill]

I believe that there is a difference between salvation and indwelling, That doesn't mean that the Holy Spirit is not present or active in a person's life prior to indwelling, nor does it place indwelling as a second or higher level of Christian.

Christ told the disciples to "go and wait in Jerusalum" (Acts 1:) unless we consider them unsaved at this point, it seems there was something else He wanted them to have prior to ministry. He indicated they would receive power to be witnesses (ministers)

Let me point out again, that the purpose of this indwelling was power to minister (that seems to be forgotten by many) and tongues is considered the least of the gifts, while Paul encourages christians to "covent earnestly the best gifts" (I Corinthians 12:31) so the focus on tongues is really misplaced. Tongues is for a sign, and for the edification of the speaker (I Corinthians 14:4) These are not inappropriate, but they also aren't ministry, and that is Paul's point in I Corinthians 14.

Now knowing that this is a power for ministry, many people aren't quite at that point immediately after salvation, while some are. God knows what we need, and when we need it. Some do receive the indwelling at the time of conversion, others it is later, but it should mark a step out of pew sitting and into service. I don't believe it is neccesary for salvation, and I don't believe it makes someone more of a Christian or a higher level Christian or anything like that, it's just a source of power to guide, lead and empower ministry.

[dolfan]

All verses NIV...

1Cor. 14:2 "For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit."

14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind.

14:18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.
19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.

14:28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.

14:39 Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
40 But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

For me, these verses from First Corinthians indicate that Paul is discussing two different manifestations of "tongues" (which are both different from the Second Chapter of Acts "tongues"). Paul would seem to be saying that he, and others in the first century Church, had personal prayer languages that were between the individual's spirit and God...but IN CHURCH, as part of public worship, the acceptable practice was that which was "completed" through interpretation. But that restriction in no way forbids (in fact just the opposite), limits, or defines the "private prayer language".

I am happy that people who follow hard after God's heart can have fellowship without having to agree on the application of the verses you mention, Dave. And, you're a good example of that, by your own testimony.

I cannot see a personal prayer language in 1 Corinthians. But, I'll claim guilt on something --- there are 'issue' passages that I can only read through the filter of what I understand and want to believe, too. I feel confident that's not the case here for me, but I know it is true on other matters. The real deal, though, is love. None of it profits anything without love. That's why I'm glad that there is a group here that, whether they speak in tongues or not, knows that love is above all and in all for any of our Chrisitianity to mean one whit.

[Kenya]

Some do receive the indwelling at the time of conversion, others it is later, but it should mark a step out of pew sitting and into service. I don't believe it is neccesary for salvation, and I don't believe it makes someone more of a Christian or a higher level Christian or anything like that, it's just a source of power to guide, lead and empower ministry.

I like that point. But do you think that someone can have this power and indwelling for service without ever speaking in tongues?