what ever happened to

[crispfin]

If you feel it's an oxymoron, you have not been under a Servant Leader, or been one yourself.

Well that's probably right, because it's one of those Christian phrases I don't believe in. So if I don't even believe in the term itself, then I guess I can't be one and can't see them. The whole thing just seems to me an attempt to claim to be both under and over others. I don't care if others use the phrase, but it just seems doublespeak to me and others who don't know Christianese.

[Dr. Ron]

Soulsearcher........your pastor preaches with correct position of tongue on this one.

[Pastor Bill]

If you feel it's an oxymoron, you have not been under a Servant Leader, or been one yourself.

Well that's probably right, because it's one of those Christian phrases I don't believe in. So if I don't even believe in the term itself, then I guess I can't be one and can't see them. The whole thing just seems to me an attempt to claim to be both under and over others. I don't care if others use the phrase, but it just seems doublespeak to me and others who don't know Christianese.

But isn't this the whole point of Christ's teachings? The first shall be last, washing the disciples' feet? Yes many have missed this point, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[Pastor Bill]

Dr. Ron, You had a mentor, you "paid your dues" in the way I use the term by being led and learning from your father. I'll agree the appointment system is flawed, and I think many SOs are seeing that and not doing the 2 year shuffle but more seeking long term commitments and seeking with the pastor for the real direction in where they should be, and IF they are to move or stay. There are times that pastoral changes are needed, either for the pastor's needs, the churches needs, or as new leaders are emerging, and that's not a bad thing either, but the 2 year shuffle helped no one.

[soulsearcher]

Dr. Ron said what I also believe to be true in a nutshell... the appointment system is devisive. And there is the rub; churches on perpetual roller coaster rides of growth and non-growth, from one pastor to the next. And even when a great one seems "heaven-sent," you know the ever-expanding bubble is soon to be burst by the looming pin of appointment.

[dawgs10]

Dr. Ron said what I also believe to be true in a nutshell... the appointment system is devisive. And there is the rub; churches on perpetual roller coaster rides of growth and non-growth, from one pastor to the next. And even when a great one seems "heaven-sent," you know the ever-expanding bubble is soon to be burst by the looming pin of appointment.

that system has changed a lot. appointments more than not have some to do with the church and overseer. but i still have a question do we or do we not as a whole believe that people should earn thier way?

[paul]

Dr. Ron said what I also believe to be true in a nutshell... the appointment system is devisive. And there is the rub; churches on perpetual roller coaster rides of growth and non-growth, from one pastor to the next. And even when a great one seems "heaven-sent," you know the ever-expanding bubble is soon to be burst by the looming pin of appointment.

that system has changed a lot. appointments more than not have some to do with the church and overseer. but i still have a question do we or do we not as a whole believe that people should earn thier way?

Is their a difference in "earning your way" and "paying your way (dues) ?"

[dawgs10]

those that wont work will not eat. the ministry is full of lazy people that think they should get a free ride. and then there are good ministers that work hard some full time some not but they do there job, dont complain and know that the reward is in heaven.

[KBevangelist]

For as long as there has been an appointment system, there has been a "dues paying...and a ladder". It is impossible to separate those.

It has been the most divisive system ever divised. My dad was a great preacher and pastor. He served for 38 years in COGOP. He went where-ever he was sent. He was given only one "limit" church in all those years but never left a church that didn't pay the "limit".

He was a builder...he was always replaced by a "ladder climber" and those churches always went down ....to some degree. It didn't matter to him where he was sent, he built the church because he had vision and zeal.

He was one of my mentors. He "made" me preach my first funeral at 16. He showed me how to work with people who were grieving. He taught me how to construct a sermon. He "allowed " me to get out of bed at all hours of the night ....even when I was in HS and go with him to pray for sick members who called for prayer.

Until the day that a church takes it upon themselves to "mentor" the successor, there will be no success. It is vital in this society. I used to tell my pastors, "if you want a community to believe you are truely there for them, buy a burial plot in that city and committ for life."

sounds like more young ministers in cogop needs more men like your dad.

I agree!

Where are these men and women at now? Mentors I mean!

We desperately need them. One thing I have always tried to do, though I am still young, is train young ministers under me, like I have been mentored.

It pays

KB

[MrDanger]

that system has changed a lot. appointments more than not have some to do with the church and overseer.

And then it changed back to what it was. In most areas (according to you Georgia is a rare exception) it has reverted back to the Overseer makes the decision on all appointments without a true "say so" by the local church. Some states never changed in the first place. From friends in many states that I have talked to, it has reverted back to the old way.

[Dr. Ron]

I am always amused at the "it's not that way anymore". I didn't die when I left COGOP. I still have a lot of family there. I know what has and has not changed as well as anyone on here.

The main thing that has not changed is the attitude. The same old "do well here and one day you may get a "good church".

Go where God has called you. Plant your feet by "rivers of living waters" and say "I shall not be moved" Then....you will know whether you have what it takes by building one from the ground up. That way you create your own problems and create the answers.

As a mentor to many ministers, my first advice to them is work under a progressive pastor for at least 5 years then go plant a church. My dad...the great mentor.....said.."people who have never done anything, won't ever do anything".

Each church needs to raise it's own ministry and train them. I have already selected my successor and am in a 12 year mentoring program with him to replace me.

[Pastor Gary]

I am always amused at the "it's not that way anymore". I didn't die when I left COGOP. I still have a lot of family there. I know what has and has not changed as well as anyone on here.

The main thing that has not changed is the attitude. The same old "do well here and one day you may get a "good church".

Not sure whether to laugh or puke, Ron... that is certainly not my attitude, nor is it the attitude of other leaders I interact with in COGOP. It may be true in places, but you paint with a mighty broad brush, friend.

[dawgs10]

that system has changed a lot. appointments more than not have some to do with the church and overseer.

And then it changed back to what it was. In most areas (according to you Georgia is a rare exception) it has reverted back to the Overseer makes the decision on all appointments without a true "say so" by the local church. Some states never changed in the first place. From friends in many states that I have talked to, it has reverted back to the old way.

i know for a fact that the pastors in the state of georgia was contacted by the state overseer with a survey asking if they would like to be move or stay just this past year. my church would have some say on who our pastor is, but if i wanted to hand pick my pastor i would run to the baptist church so i could bring them in and kick them out at will.

[MrDanger]

that system has changed a lot. appointments more than not have some to do with the church and overseer.

And then it changed back to what it was. In most areas (according to you Georgia is a rare exception) it has reverted back to the Overseer makes the decision on all appointments without a true "say so" by the local church. Some states never changed in the first place. From friends in many states that I have talked to, it has reverted back to the old way.

i know for a fact that the pastors in the state of georgia was contacted by the state overseer with a survey asking if they would like to be move or stay just this past year. my church would have some say on who our pastor is, but if i wanted to hand pick my pastor i would run to the baptist church so i could bring them in and kick them out at will.

Your misunderstanding my statement. I know EXACTLY how things are done in Georgia. I have several friends that pastor in the state. I never questioned if you were telling the truth about it. Take a deep breath. You'll be okay. I promise.

[Pastor Bill]

Dr. Ron said what I also believe to be true in a nutshell... the appointment system is devisive. And there is the rub; churches on perpetual roller coaster rides of growth and non-growth, from one pastor to the next. And even when a great one seems "heaven-sent," you know the ever-expanding bubble is soon to be burst by the looming pin of appointment.

that system has changed a lot. appointments more than not have some to do with the church and overseer. but i still have a question do we or do we not as a whole believe that people should earn thier way?

Is their a difference in "earning your way" and "paying your way (dues) ?"

I don't see much of a difference, although some (on both sides) don't understand what these things should be, it's not about holding someone down, or walking them through the grunt work, making them work hard for it, but building relationships and building trust while also gaining experience personally, and learning from the experience of those over you.