How much better off since last GA?

[Pastor Bill]

longer term leadership is important, I feel like New Life is a strong church because the two pastors before me weren't 2 year appointments, but closer to 8-10 years (other than the interm between John and I when Joey served as Pastor, but he's been there 10 years in leadership, and continues as such, so the point still holds true)

I've been there 2.5 years now, and I feel like I'm just now really getting where I need to be relationship-wise with the people to really minister. 2 years and gone would kill all relational ministry.

[Kenya]

Similar to what Pastor Bill and others stated.

Membership wise, we were not affected. I do know 2 people who were personally affected in that they are in a D/R situation and recently received their ministers license.

Honestly? That is good to hear, I know for a little bit there was some holdup on that, but I have the paperwork for one in this situation where we are halfway through the process, and was hoping we wouldn't see any additional holdups.

I'm still not holding my breath. Although, we have gotten some really pretty hand written cards from HQ.

[paul]

Matt:

Church growth in the USA for the COGOP is a mixed bag.
Yes, outside the US there is much growth. We now have more missions then we can support from the US. What is the difference? Could it be that outside the US there is more localized ministry, fewer overseers per local church, that they are less report and policy driven, as well as having a different financial system? Does having less overseers and not having to fund the International Offices equal more growth?

I am not familiar with the present Mission program as far as the fininacial end of it. I do know from much personal experience it is not a matter with an easy answer.

So I will share what my approach has been. It has proven very effective for us. Not that their is any cookie cutter.

Years ago our fulltime church planners were overseers in small states who received additional support from General Headquarters to keep them on the "field" evangelizing and organizing new churches. My father was an overseer in a very large area of travel, yet he organized a new church in a YMCA

Personal Note: the first church My wife and I organized in 1972 was in a YMCA chapel.......

Today as we see the USD loosing power daily one has to really rethink the approach of support.

Our basic premis is that we are here to build the kingdom og God. Knowing that Jesus said He would build His church. It is not my job to do what He said He would do. So my focus is on working with people, networking with organizations and doing what ever possible to faciliate reaching and equipping a new generation.

We do not make it a policy to support individule Ministers. The funds we send are to help them and provide tools for them to reach their area for Christ. so our funds sent are what we call " Outreach funds. Much like supporting those S.O. that were out their planting churches.

Next, we plant churches that we know that have a pastor who wants to plant churches. so we plant churches that plant churches.

Our bible College programs are set up to train these Pastors to plant churches. We help provide assistance to the schools for the programs, fgeeding and other necessities. When the Pastors graduate they return to their particular village to Plant the church and we have no appointment process that would ever change them. for all intent and purpose they would remain their all their life. Again, promotion comes from God not man.

We seek to work with leaders who have the mind set that they have been called by God and God has annointed them to do the specific thask at hand. Leaders who are going to do it wether they get funds from me or not.

We seek leader who already have a vision for their areas, villages, particular ministry and come along side them to help them in any way possible.

We work with other organization and Denom. In India we had a Political Official from New Zealand..he had no desire to plant churches. He wanted to set up micro business for widows and women who were outcast for becoming a christian. These are sewing centers.

He needed the places...We built the church buildings, he set up the sewing centers in the churches, the bible college oversees the project. Our purpose is not to raise our flag ( no pun intended ) in every country. But those to which God has dcalled us to.

One has to realize that working with these type of leaders, they have vision, drive, and many ideas. you cannot bridel them. You can't hold them under your thumb. But the results are incredible.

If I was setting up an organization here in the states I would use the same approach. Knowing that it would have to be adjusted to meet the cultural and particular needs of each area I would be working in.

Sorry to go on...but many organizations must face some hard fact if they are to be more effective.

[Dr. Ron]

See Paul, that is the whole falacy of denominationalism. If we don't think it up and if we don't have "a program of our very own" then we don't want to network with other ministries.

A church of our size cannot support a person full time in the field. We are forced to network with ministries that will do exactly as you are doing. Had we not already committed to two of those, we would grab the chance to partner with you. As growth continues I am certain that we will.

Major denoms have died from being "missions heavy" where they are trying to support thier own. The Moravian church is almost gone because of "missions". NOt because they believed in that, but because they tried to keep it denominationally supported and controled.

The "Sharing Eternal Life " program was a case in point. Since Evangelism Explosion was "Presbyterian" ....it couldn't have been right....so let's plagerize it and make it "better".

The ownership is the problem....and you said it well.....Jesus said "I will build my church"...but we decided to do it for him.

[paul]

See Paul, that is the whole falacy of denominationalism. If we don't think it up and if we don't have "a program of our very own" then we don't want to network with other ministries.

To me this is a death nail in the coffin of denominationalism. The mentality of mine must be bigger and better than yours. If you have a bible college program, then I must have one bigger and better....Mnay here won't remember when Jack Cole boasted that His tent was larger than A.A. Allen and the battel went on.

Because of the lack of relationship that exist in many organizations there is this fear that if we work with others we will lose our people to them. If you have relationship your people will not leave but bring more to your group.

Our bible College Program is a perfect example of Networking. We use a material that was put together by a para organization. The material uses a video/dvd format. It draws from many denom and independant ministries and para organizations. It is a well balanced approach to basic ministry and church planting. We use it as a base material and then add suppliments to it that fit each local area the school is in. Our purpose is to help them become better ministers and pastors and not better WMOF'ers
When I look back at my BTI days, you realize quickly that the purpose was not to really help you in ministry, but rather help you to become a better COGOPER. And indoctrinate you into the system. And man was I ever.


ISOM ( the material) program spent millions of dollars getting the material in more than 60 languages. There is no way possible that my ministry could have afforded this type of project. But they ISOM needed miistries like mine to get the schools set up and take the material...I perfect marriage. Because of this mind set of Networking. We have regional centers in 8 countries and ISOM has 1,000 of schools around the world using their material. I would be a complete Idiot to try to duplicate this in order to have bragging rights.

when we send the material and set up a school in a nation we tell them to name the school what ever they want. All but one chose to use the name World Outreach International bible College. They are not required to use it and this applies to the name over their door.

[scooter]

So yall are saying you are much better off since the Assembly!

Praise God!

[paul]

So yall are saying you are much better off since the Assembly!

Praise God!

Can't wait untill the next one

[Pastor Bill]

Dr. Ron, I don't know that I can say that's true of all denoms (although the CoG/CoGoP branches, and most pentecostals do fit this) but many outside that realm do work with other organizations with much success.

Also things are changing in that way too, I am seeing on a state level much more attention and efforts being pushed across denominational lines from the CoGoP organization.

[DaJudge]

Let's all give it up for the Dr. Ron and Paul non-denominational mutual admiration society!

[scooter]

Let's all give it up for the Dr. Ron and Paul non-denominational mutual admiration society!

Response: Just don't condense it to the Ron Paul society.

[MrDanger]

Let's all give it up for the Dr. Ron and Paul non-denominational mutual admiration society!

Response: Just don't condense it to the Ron Paul society.

My allergies are acting up today and my eyes are blurring. That is exactly how I read it.

[Dr. Ron]

Well, since no one cared to answer the original question,,,,and since no one obviously read with clarity the writings of Paul and Ron, it would be easy to see how they would come up with the Ron Paul thing.

Neither Paul nor I were having a "mutual admiration" meeting....we were stating cold hard facts of our days of ministry.

I fully agree that the ministries that are impacting the world are those that are cooperating under the banner of ONE LORD not ONE CHURCH.

Some of you guys want your cake and eat it too. You seem to want the church to make changes and yet not tooooooo much change. "I want us to cooperate, if that means THEY cooperate with us or let us lead the fight."
Some times you just recognize that there are already things in existance that are working.......Instead of asking God to bless what you are doing , why not just do what God is already blessing...


Ron Paul

[DaJudge]

Touchy much, Dr. Ron?

It was a joke! Humor!

[Mountie12]

Dr. Ron said

Well, since no one cared to answer the original question,,,,and since no one obviously read with clarity the writings of Paul and Ron, it would be easy to see how they would come up with the Ron Paul thing.

I'll jump in and say yes that my church is better off but not necessarily for the reasons some may think. Cottondale Community is an extremely non-traditional COGOP. We have more Baptist/Methodist than native COGOPers. 65% are in 2nd marriages.

As a previously divorced pastor, I re-married less than a month after the GA. As of this date, the COGOP has taken no actions against me (although IMHO in the case of my friend EW, they have wrongfully done so). My state MRB has verbally endorsed my ministry and pastorate. My SO has continued to use me in various state functions. My local church is 100% behind me.

I had every intention of remarrying, regardless of the GA ruling. My church voted to stand with me, even if it meant rejecting COGOP control. Please don't take that as a boastful statement. We just felt that we must follow God's direction.

We are better off in the fact that the local church and I are free to discern God's voice in this one issue without having to worry about denominational restraints.

[dawgs10]

and cogop backed you. hmmm, sounds like maybe its not the same church that paul and ron remember.