How will we survive $15 gas??

[pastorables]

Maybe I've mentioned this. At our store, it is very common for people to come in and pay with change they've scraped up. Poor folks sometimes just get a gallon of gas cause that's all the money they've got, and they pay with change from home. We usually see that increase at the end of the month, for obvious reasons. Over a week ago, we noticed we were getting more change-payers then than we do at the end of the month. It hasn't let up.

This gas price thing is killing people's pockets, because everything else is through the roof, too. Wealthy people won't hurt as much, but they never do. That's the great thing about wealth, I guess. But, the average person out there is feeling this hard, and the below-average income folks are in real pain. We've tried to absorb some of this in our bottom line, but we've held that line as long as we can, and we've had to increase prices. It's vicious.

Dolfan,

This mirrors what is happening at our store. Recently, my clerk turned down $15 in rolled pennies for a bill of supplies. Most of our banks will not accept rolled coins now, thus we are cautious not to take an excessive amount of rolled coins. If I would have been there, I might have authorized the transaction anyway. I've had two customers in successive months offer their car keys and/or other valuables until checks or food stamps were available, etc. Being in business, I have chosen not to open this kind of door to the public, however, I have ministry partners who I can call and get help in these types of situations which I deem to be legitimate. Yes, times are very tough.

pa

[Full Quiver]

Rolled coins are legal tender and they could have busted open the rolls and told your clerk to start counting. Banks need to stink it up! Honestly, has your bank ever gave you rolled coins; I'm sure they do all the time. How do you know that you are getting what you pay for?

[KBevangelist]

Rolled coins are legal tender and they could have busted open the rolls and told your clerk to start counting. Banks need to stink it up! Honestly, has your bank ever gave you rolled coins; I'm sure they do all the time. How do you know that you are getting what you pay for?

I just took over 1000 bucks of rolled change to the bank. They took every bit of it. This was fund raiser my youth group did.

Gas is high. Higher in other countries, of course, they offer more services.

Thankfully we do not have a commute to church and we are only using one car.

KB

[pastorables]

Rolled coins are legal tender and they could have busted open the rolls and told your clerk to start counting.

I defer the legal opinions to our resident lawyer, but most businesses make rules as necessary to their particular situation. I can't tell you how many times customers tell me what I'm legally bound to do concerning business practice.

In our town, there has been an abundance of damaged rolled coins being passed. For example, I took several rolls of pennies once that were completely unusable. They looked as if they had been in acid water?!

pa

[Tracy]

Eager, you'd never be able to afford the fertilizer and seeds to supply your own food. With the recent droughts fertilizer and such has gone through the roof. a friend of mine got out of the cattle business because of such. He paid out the wazoo all winter to feed his herd because the drought caused a shortage of hay and of course increased price for hay. He called to get his land fertilized for hay this year and he couldn't afford it. Last year his crop failed altogether.

Seeds aren't that expensive. And the fertlilizer needs of a full-time farmer vs. an individual growing a garden are worlds apart.

More people need to be growing some of their own food, in my opinion.

[EagerBeaver]

I don't think it will continue as it has to $15.00 a gallon.

I see it leveling out here in a bit and then coming back down.

Honestly that is more of a realistic possibility.

Let's be real...$15 is not out of the question within a couple years but think of the crippling effect that would have on the US economy in general. The US will not let its own country completely collapse simply due to oil.

[Paully_44]

I see it leveling out here in a bit and then coming back down.

I sure hope so. I rolled in to town tonight after work and regular is now $4.10 and Diesel is $4.99

[dolfan]

Rolled coins are legal tender and they could have busted open the rolls and told your clerk to start counting.

I defer the legal opinions to our resident lawyer, but most businesses make rules as necessary to their particular situation. I can't tell you how many times customers tell me what I'm legally bound to do concerning business practice.

In our town, there has been an abundance of damaged rolled coins being passed. For example, I took several rolls of pennies once that were completely unusable. They looked as if they had been in acid water?!

pa

Legal tender means only that -- it is acceptable as a form of payment and the Federal Reserve will honor it. You can tender chickens as payment, too, and a business can accept them, but you can't deposit them in the bank. It does NOT mean that you must take that form of tender. Checks are legal tender, too, but many businesses won't accept them. Credit cards -- same thing.

This from the U.S. Treasury website's Q&A section:

Question: I thought that United States currency was legal tender for all debts. Some businesses or governmental agencies say that they will only accept checks, money orders or credit cards as payment, and others will only accept currency notes in denominations of $20 or smaller. Isn't this illegal?

Answer: The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," which states: "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."

This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.

[dolfan]

I don't think it will continue as it has to $15.00 a gallon.

I see it leveling out here in a bit and then coming back down.

Honestly that is more of a realistic possibility.

Let's be real...$15 is not out of the question within a couple years but think of the crippling effect that would have on the US economy in general. The US will not let its own country completely collapse simply due to oil.

I don't share your faith in our government. The U.S. let our country completely collapse simply over rampant speculation in the stock market in 1929. History is not on your side in that faith. Bank failures followed; today, mortgage lenders (which didn't exist in 1929) and investment banks are failing. Although the failures are nowhere near the numbers as in the 1930's, today's banks/lenders/investment houses are large multi-state entities under large corporate umbrellas as opposed to small, localized businesses; the result is that one large institution (i.e., Countrywide, Bear-Stearns) has the failure footprint of any number of small banks from the 1930's. The bailout of Bear Stearns is unprecedented and may actually have a long-term negative impact greater than the short term relief.

That said, I repeat what I said at the outset that dire predictions seldom bear out and the worst tends to fall short of them. This whole thing is just food for thought. But, let's say gas goes to $8. I don't think $8 gas hurts our economy worse than $15 gas. $15 would be beating a dead horse that died at about $6-8. That's just my opinion, of course.

Then, there's the argument that other countries already pay that much and survive. Okay, if Turkey's or the Netherland's economy is the goal, we can handle $8 gas.

[EagerBeaver]

Rolled coins are legal tender and they could have busted open the rolls and told your clerk to start counting.

I defer the legal opinions to our resident lawyer, but most businesses make rules as necessary to their particular situation. I can't tell you how many times customers tell me what I'm legally bound to do concerning business practice.

In our town, there has been an abundance of damaged rolled coins being passed. For example, I took several rolls of pennies once that were completely unusable. They looked as if they had been in acid water?!

pa

Legal tender means only that -- it is acceptable as a form of payment and the Federal Reserve will honor it. You can tender chickens as payment, too, and a business can accept them, but you can't deposit them in the bank. It does NOT mean that you must take that form of tender. Checks are legal tender, too, but many businesses won't accept them. Credit cards -- same thing.

This from the U.S. Treasury website's Q&A section:

Question: I thought that United States currency was legal tender for all debts. Some businesses or governmental agencies say that they will only accept checks, money orders or credit cards as payment, and others will only accept currency notes in denominations of $20 or smaller. Isn't this illegal?

Answer: The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," which states: "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."

This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.

As a prime example to what you said here Dolfan, if anyone bought an iPhone from an Apple Store last year when they were first released, you were only able to pay with credit/debit. No checks or cash at all. When I was working at the Washington Square store, we had complaint after complaint from customers saying their cash was legal tender and therefore we must honor it, otherwise we were breaking the law.

Thus we printed the exact text of Section 31 USC 5103, and showed them in writing, in the government's words, why it was legal for us to only accept card and nothing else. In effect we were also protecting the consumer, and it also linked the phone bought to that person specifically (at the time there was a moratorium on more than 2 iPhones being bought ANYWHERE by any one customer).

[darylscook]

I really think this has caused America as a nation to force the Automotive industry into real viable electric automobiles. You can already buy a completely electric vehicle that looks like a real car and go 30-40 miles on a charge. It is modified to limit speed to 25 but you can fix that and it would go 30 -35 mph. ZENN

Right now, you can go buy a Prius hybrid and pay someone about $12,000 dollars and they will turn it into a plug-in hybrid to fully charge the batteries (and they add more batteries). For city driving, you run on electric option completely and then on the road when the batteries run out you switch to hybrid. At $10/gallon. It would be worth $37,000 to reduce your dependance on gas to very minumum. Shoot, according to FQ, He would make that up in about 1 year verses buying gas.

If Gas prices stay up and continue to rise, If Ford,GM,Toyota,Nissan,Honda doesn't Mom and Pop will and we will be running more on electricity. ZENN is supposed to have a new electric car coming out late next year that will go about 250 miles on a charge and get up to about 75 mph. And be rechargable in minutes not hours. we'll see.... I know, but it is coming. If I had a completely city commute, I would have a ZENN today.

Daryl

[dolfan]

I really think this has caused America as a nation to force the Automotive industry into real viable electric automobiles. You can already buy a completely electric vehicle that looks like a real car and go 30-40 miles on a charge. It is modified to limit speed to 25 but you can fix that and it would go 30 -35 mph. ZENN

Right now, you can go buy a Prius hybrid and pay someone about $12,000 dollars and they will turn it into a plug-in hybrid to fully charge the batteries (and they add more batteries). For city driving, you run on electric option completely and then on the road when the batteries run out you switch to hybrid. At $10/gallon. It would be worth $37,000 to reduce your dependance on gas to very minumum. Shoot, according to FQ, He would make that up in about 1 year verses buying gas.

If Gas prices stay up and continue to rise, If Ford,GM,Toyota,Nissan,Honda doesn't Mom and Pop will and we will be running more on electricity. ZENN is supposed to have a new electric car coming out late next year that will go about 250 miles on a charge and get up to about 75 mph. And be rechargable in minutes not hours. we'll see.... I know, but it is coming. If I had a completely city commute, I would have a ZENN today.

Daryl

I love the thought of driving a golf cart on the interstate, really I do, but where's all that electricity going to come from that powers these cars? Coal generated electricity. Nuke generated electricity. Hydro generated (especially if you live in the SE and are on TVA's grid) power. Great, let's try it. How soon will these cars get affordable and comparable in performance to our cars now? And, what are we supposed to do with Talladega, then??? Seriously, it isn't enough to say that they are affordable simply because going with gas powered engines is so much more expensive. They need to be affordable as they relate to wages and earning capacity, not as they relate to outrageous gas prices. I just won't believe it until I see it.

[Paully_44]

I really think this has caused America as a nation to force the Automotive industry into real viable electric automobiles.

I am glad that alternative cars are finally becoming available to the mainstream and I know when it comes time to buy a new car that is what I'll be looking at. But, what about the consumers who cant unload their vehicles and go out and buy a new car? whats for them to do?

if everyone could get out and buy a green car, what are we as a country prepared to do when it comes time to dispose of the older-gas burning cars?

[paul]

I really think this has caused America as a nation to force the Automotive industry into real viable electric automobiles.

I am glad that alternative cars are finally becoming available to the mainstream and I know when it comes time to buy a new car that is what I'll be looking at. But, what about the consumers who cant unload their vehicles and go out and buy a new car? whats for them to do?

if everyone could get out and buy a green car, what are we as a country prepared to do when it comes time to dispose of the older-gas burning cars?

Paully....big business will do what it has always done. Send them to poorer coountries....that is where all the inventory of leaded paint went. It is where all third grade and worse tobacco goes.

[MacUser]

The key is OIL and lots of it. Not electric, not nuclear, not hydrogen.. BUT good old black Texas tea. OIL. It has been DEMONIZED when it's the ONLY viable option at this moment.

Trains, Tanks, Airplanes, Freight Trucks, 99% of Autos, Dozers, Cranes, (insert all Military, Industrial Highway and Construction related vehicles here) all use OIL and lots of it.

It has sustained our way of life, protected our families, built our homes, built our highways, economic infrastructure, etc etc etc (insert your pet cause here) OIL has done it.

We need some LEADERSHIP in our Govt. in combating anyone or anything that wants to cast OIL in a negative light. We need to be PROUD of our country again as this is all combined together.

Anything that America is good at is now cast as a negative. I say COMBAT this enemy FIRST. With the proper LEADERSHIP (not pandering) we can turn the negative opinion of America into a POSITIVE ONE.

Draft STRONG chinned actors that have real convictions of God and Country and have them do PSA (Public Service Annnoncements) 24/7 on all channels. Have them speak of how America is a GREAT nation founded on principles and rights granted from God Almighty.

In these PSA's Promote examples of hard working individuals that have helped our country become great. The automotive worker, the oil companies, the amazing U.S Military Soldier, the Health care giver, (insert more here). Watch your chest swell and your determination and resolve become emboldened.

Educate on how OIL drives everything we currently own and we can't switch overnight or punish ourselves out of this made up Green threat. Encourage new technologies and guarantee that when a viable alternative is REALLY available - it will be used.

Show America how FANTASTIC oil is. *Trains, Jets, Truckers,Military images go here*

The enemy is OURSELVES (insert - yes - liberal causes). True Positive Leadership is the key.

Why is this so hard!!??? Beam me up Scotty!!

[Rant off]