What are you doing tonight? Why not...

[scooter]

I hear ya Scooter.

The issue here is not a coming to faith, or a growing in practice. The issue here, now, is (as I see it) neglecting to do what we know to do. The Lords; Supper, Communion, the Eucharist, Christian passover (or whatever other term this is for it) is essentially universally accepted as a Christ given ordinance of the church, to be observed by all believers universally.

If someone knows that, and neglects or refuses to participate, then there are some serious issues at work in their spiritual life. And if left unresolved I'd doubt the validity of their profession of faith.

Still, I just wanted to encourage people to join together, like the apostles and early church themselves, in keeping communion and on the Passover. Truly it has no greater emphasis, impact, or meaning than at this time of year -- though certainly is not void of meaning when held otherwise.

But yeah, the most important thing is to experience the liberation from sin Christ's sacrifice has provided. Without that the meal becomes meaningless ritual.

Response: You know for me fellas it's like my heritage has become something ugly that is used in such a ritualistic way that it makes me want to protest. So I protest.

Clothing is most universally accepted as well yet there was a time when it became an object lesson.

Anyway, baptized 6 tonight, what a great good Firday!

[Poimen]

Response: You know for me fellas it's like my heritage has become something ugly that is used in such a ritualistic way that it makes me want to protest. So I protest.

Clothing is most universally accepted as well yet there was a time when it became an object lesson.

Touche! Point taken.

Of course for me, keeping it only on Passover (once a year), it hardly get's over ritualized.

Anyway, baptized 6 tonight, what a great good Friday!

What, no protest?!?! Just kidding. Awesome news.

[MacUser]

a one sided view and not the whole picture, as after attaining salvation that is more for a child of God to do. Part of that "go ye into all the world" doctrine, if you are going to take one side then you need to take other that goes with it.

Let's take Jesus as an example here and how he did it. At the age of 12 we can agree he knew whom he was.. yet he worked from 12 to 30 in the carpenter shop. Day in and day out.. living as a Son. No rush knowing His purpose would be fulfilled.

Imagine some modern day religious preacher meeting Jesus when he was 20 years old. "If you are the SON of GOD you should be in the streets healing the sick, preaching, and saving the dying world... are you LAZY can you see the world is going to hell... etc etc."

Yet Jesus knew He was the Savior of the world and he wasn't in any rush and his heavenly father was perfectly happy with him. When John baptized him the words were.." This my beloved son in whom I am WELL PLEASED" ( and he had basically did nothing up to this point ). So God was perfectly ok with Jesus already in advance... why?

Because Jesus operated out of paternity and not out of performance. Let that sink in... it's really something amazing to chew on.

Also remember what did the Devil say to Jesus during temptation.. "If you ARE the Son of God then..." We need to evaluate which side we sound like don't we?

God Bless!

[beckrl]

Hi Guys, with all that is commented on. I guess the discussion comes down to do we keep the passover seder or only the Lord's supper and how often?

Jesus then after supper told them to do this to remember him. The bread and cup Jesus used was from that seder supper. Would Jesus be telling them to stop remembering the passover? No! Jesus infact is enforcing the Lamb of the Passover, so as often as they pertake of the Passover to do this "Lord's supper".

I as non Jewish don't pretake of the passover seder, but do of our Lord's supper. But I do think we maybe missing out of alot of the meaning of Passover. For insist the timing of passover is once a year at a particular time, if we determine to take it any time throughout the year in my opinon think we loose alot of the meaning. The same as the unleaven bread which is hidden in the Jewish home to be found and removed, which is at this same time.

[RamboPreacher]

Oreo's an bovine lactose.

[oletimer]

RamboPreacher Posted:

Oreo's an bovine lactose.

So its cookies and cream hum

[RamboPreacher]

for protestants, the sacrement is less about they food/drink used, as much as it is about the attitude and reverence.

[oletimer]

Scooter Wrote:

Response: You know for me fellas it's like my heritage has become something ugly that is used in such a ritualistic way that it makes me want to protest. So I protest.

Clothing is most universally accepted as well yet there was a time when it became an object lesson

Heritage is find for the family and background, but when it come to doing what the says is something else. Part of my heritage worshiped the elements as native American. I'm not ashamed of them, but in no wise intend on taking up their way of worship as I have found in the Word of God the way that God would have us to go and worship.

The ways of the Law led to ritualistic worship and the down fall to many a man. Obeying the Word of God as commanded by God, Christ, and other writer as inspired by Holy Ghost for instruction and doctrine, the things that teach us how to please God in this life as we prepare for the life to come are not ritualistic nor are they legalistic.

Jesus told Peter to feed both sheep and lambs as find in John 21:15-16. The writer of Hebrews wrote in the sixth chapter:
Heb 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Heb 6:2
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3
And this will we do, if God permit.

When I join the Church under covenant I promise to take the whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation rightly divided, which is the same covenant that most of the COGOP AND TCOD took. I don't know what the COGOP does now, but that was how it then. For me not to do the Lord's Supper and the Feet Washing with the ability to do would be for me not to do all that I know to do. For me not to teach my sheep and lambs to do it would be failure on my part and also that of any other pastor. Verse three said "And this will we do, if God permit" speaking of going on into perfection. God didn't call us just direct a social gathering but to feed the sheep and Lambs and lead them in His ways.

Clothing is most universally accepted as well yet there was a time when it became an object lesson.

Yes I agree that it can be object lesson and shouldn't have to be with the exception of the Advise to Members clarification of decent dress. Most countries with exception us modern up to date adhere to that standard without the Advice to Members, but we have already went thru that some time ago. The following was copied from the Assembly Minutes of the COGOP of 1982.

“You dress should be with moderation, neat and clean, but not for show. Moderation includes paying moderate prices for clothing, wearing dresses of high-enough necklines, low-enough hemlines, sleeves of reasonable length. The wearing of extremely sheer fabrics is unbecoming to a saint and the wearing of shorts in public should never be practiced.”

As far as the Church has been officially, that is her stand. But there have been people that have went over the line both ways. That is no excuse for us to throw out the baby with bath water.

[oletimer]

MacUser wrote:
oletimer wrote:
a one sided view and not the whole picture, as after attaining salvation that is more for a child of God to do. Part of that "go ye into all the world" doctrine, if you are going to take one side then you need to take other that goes with it.


Let's take Jesus as an example here and how he did it. At the age of 12 we can agree he knew whom he was.. yet he worked from 12 to 30 in the carpenter shop. Day in and day out.. living as a Son. No rush knowing His purpose would be fulfilled.

Imagine some modern day religious preacher meeting Jesus when he was 20 years old. "If you are the SON of GOD you should be in the streets healing the sick, preaching, and saving the dying world... are you LAZY can you see the world is going to hell... etc etc."

Yet Jesus knew He was the Savior of the world and he wasn't in any rush and his heavenly father was perfectly happy with him. When John baptized him the words were.." This my beloved son in whom I am WELL PLEASED" ( and he had basically did nothing up to this point ). So God was perfectly ok with Jesus already in advance... why?

Because Jesus operated out of paternity and not out of performance. Let that sink in... it's really something amazing to chew on.

Also remember what did the Devil say to Jesus during temptation.. "If you ARE the Son of God then..." We need to evaluate which side we sound like don't we?

Let's take Jesus as an example

You and no body else knows what went on between twelve and thirty years of age. Not all was written and also have you not ever wonder why Joseph is not mention after the year of him being twelve years of age.

he wasn't in any rush

Don't you know that ever thing that He did was on a time table as written in the word of God.

Because Jesus operated out of paternity and not out of performance

Are you so blind that you can't that He did both. Because He love the Father, He was obedience in the work. Have you not read James 2:18

Jas 2:18
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

If a man says that it all faith and nothing to do with works has not read the bible.

Lu 2:49
And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

Joh 4:34
Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

No I'm buying the bull about faith and no work as they go hand and hand. You can't buy salvation by works, but it is required to be faithful.

Now you can chew on that, but why would one want to find ways to not do the will of God?

[RamboPreacher]

I am glad the sacrement of drinking poison and picking up snakes didn't take hold.

[MacUser]

No I'm buying the bull about faith and no work as they go hand and hand. You can't buy salvation by works, but it is required to be faithful.

Now you can chew on that, but why would one want to find ways to not do the will of God?

Oletimer. I love you brother.. and no.. I wouldn't buy a bull, cow, or calf either.. lol. Nobody has said anything about faith and no work? I gave you examples of How Christ lived without being in a rush, not in a hurry, confident in his paternity and not performance.. yet he also was doing God's perfect will.

I only question the type of salvation fearing work individuals bring forth to God as justification when the only way to PLEASE God is by Faith as Hebrews 11:6 clearly states. If you are doing this for any type of reward your model is wrong.

Hebrews 11:6.
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

Then against boastful works:
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast.

Titus 3:5-7 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 4:1-5 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wage is not reckoned as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.


Then in Colossians 2.. you must be ROOTED in FAITH FIRST. SO no one can take your captive.

6. So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him, 7. rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness.

8. See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.



What are the basic principles of the world? If you do good you are rewarded. If you do bad.. you are punished. Our AMAZING Savior deviates from these principles and rewards regardless of good or bad that come to Him. Wow.

16. Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.


Wow... wow. Christ is the answer. Now surely I do things for my God because I have a personal relationship with him. He speaks to me as I am HIS SON. I work not out of fear.. because perfect LOVE cast out all fear.

1 John 4:18 (New International Version)
18. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

Now go show some confident, forgiving, healing, accepting, God directed, not in a rush, no fear... Love. Share where it spring from - and you won't even consider that work... it will just explode out.

God Bless

[oletimer]

MacUser Wrote:

oletimer wrote:

No I'm buying the bull about faith and no work as they go hand and hand. You can't buy salvation by works, but it is required to be faithful.

Now you can chew on that, but why would one want to find ways to not do the will of God?

Oletimer. I love you brother.. and no.. I wouldn't buy a bull, cow, or calf either.. lol. Nobody has said anything about faith and no work? I gave you examples of How Christ lived without being in a rush, not in a hurry, confident in his paternity and not performance.. yet he also was doing God's perfect will.

I only question the type of salvation fearing work individuals bring forth to God as justification when the only way to PLEASE God is by Faith as Hebrews 11:6 clearly states. If you are doing this for any type of reward your model is wrong.

Hebrews 11:6.
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

When is the last time that you read Mathews 25? I believe it were [b]Jesus Himself said that the man that had gain five more as "faithful" and rewarded him for it. I will cry as loud as anyone that you can't by salvation, for the price was paid by Christ. While at the same time by the word of God no man live for God and not do His work. This could go a lot deeper, but not now. Maybe a new thread. [/b]

Mt 25:20
And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
Mt 25:21
His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.


Then against boastful works:
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast.

I believe that verse 15 gives more meaning as to what he was saying in verses 8 and 9. I believe that this verrse had more to do with apostasy and ordinances of the then the "act of working for the Lord which Jesus found worthy.

Eph 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Titus 3:5-7 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 4:1-5 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.”

now to the one who works, his wage is not reckoned as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.


Then in Colossians 2.. you must be ROOTED in FAITH FIRST. SO no one can take your captive.

6. So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him, 7. rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness.

8. See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.



What are the basic principles of the world? If you do good you are rewarded. If you do bad.. you are punished. Our AMAZING Savior deviates from these principles and rewards regardless of good or bad that come to Him. Wow.

Yep, you are right, see the following verses. Them that do bad will be judged according to their works. Seems like there is one in Rev., oh yes see after Mathews verse.
Mt 25:25
And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
Mt 25:26
His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
Mt 25:27
Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
Mt 25:28
Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
Mt 25:29
For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Mt 25:30
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Re 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.


16. Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Col 2:17 (KJV)
Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The Screment of "The Lord's Supper and Feet Washing" has nothing to do with the Law nor any of the holidays that the people had. It was instituted by Christ, for Christ and anyone that takes anyother way is missing the mark. Don't compair the things of the world with that that is of God.

It is not a work but a worship of Christ.

Wow... wow. Christ is the answer. Now surely I do things for my God because I have a personal relationship with him. He speaks to me as I am HIS SON. I work not out of fear.. because perfect LOVE cast out all fear.

perfect LOVE cast out all fear.

Yes and it will make one want to be faithful in all things what so ever I have commanded you.
That is what a real relationship make you to want to do.

1 John 4:18 (New International Version)
18. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

Now go show some confident, forgiving, healing, accepting, God directed, not in a rush, no fear... Love. Share where it spring from - and you won't even consider that work... it will just explode out.

I will agree that working with a real relationship bring great joy in your life.

[oletimer]

RamboPreacher wrote:

I am glad the sacrement of drinking poison and picking up snakes didn't take hold.

I really hope that you were trying to be funny, but at its best it was sacrilegious and at its worse blaspheming.

Lu 22:19
And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

[MacUser]

1 John 4:18 (New International Version)
18. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

Now go show some confident, forgiving, healing, accepting, God directed, not in a rush, no fear... Love. Share where it spring from - and you won't even consider that work... it will just explode out.

I will agree that working with a real relationship bring great joy in your life.

Beautiful then for now.. let's just agree on this thought and that your eternal salvation is not based on performance like a servant.. but paternally as SONs and if SONs.. heirs according to his promise ( the other was merged and just to confusing to sort thru - sorry )

God Bless!

[RamboPreacher]

RamboPreacher wrote:

I am glad the sacrement of drinking poison and picking up snakes didn't take hold.

I really hope that you were trying to be funny, but at its best it was sacrilegious and at its worse blaspheming.

Lu 22:19
And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

I wasn't in reference to the sacrament of communion. I was in reference to what some refer to as a "sacrament" in their interpretation of handling snakes and drinking poison.

you missed it. or did you not realize that there are "Christians" that believe that drinking poison and handling snakes are something that should be done by the devout?