COGOP ARK report

[dawgs10]

Dawgs10 wrote, "your statement is true and i am not trying to do that. what i am saying is this is why it is so important to those people in the southeast. thats all. i can never put in words the respect i have for those people in far away places that have given their all. the work in the northwest united states is no less important than the southeast united states as far as north america goes. but that makes fotw no less important to thousands."

Response: If it is so important to people, why don't they support and keep it open without placing a drain on ministry funds? 2000 people at $50/yr would cover the $100,000. Bump that up to 5000 people and you get $250,000/year. Get those "thousands" to put their money where their mouths are!
I just called FOTW and was told by the lady who answered that they have over 100,000 visitors a year. Why can't it pay for itself? That's 274 people per day, 7days a week, 365 days a year. 5 bucks a head = $500,000/year? That's pretty simple math!!
$100,000 a year(just in losses, not including other funds sent in to support it) would go a long way towards feeding hungry people or promoting evangelism efforts at home and abroad. It can't be much of an evangelism tool. We lost the VOS ministries and it was a visible worldwide TV and radio ministry reaching out to untold millions. Why should we keep this place open just to keep people happy?

i agree with you. VOS should have never been closed. what bothers me is that before it was shut down we the people were not asked. it blows my mind that more thought and process is being used for the FOTW. i dont get it. the south east or any other part of the country should not be made to keep it up. good business decisions would make it support itself. but i have heard it will take one million to just get it up to par and then we would have to spend more to turn it into to a money maker. so it depends on where our heart is. VOS was much more important than FOTW as an evangelism tool. i really dont understand turning TC into an on campus school. the lean is toward online education anyway. why not put a million into more staff and a stronger online presence and use the rest to start VOS back up and update FOTW.

[RamboPreacher]

We do realize that it has to pass a proxy vote? Only pastors or designees can vote. So if Africa has more proxies, then it doesnt matter. It only has to have general consensus.

P.S. I am a pastor also.

You must have been watching the way our last State Overseer did business . But is it supposed to be Overwhelming Consensus not General Consensus.

Pastor Daryl

IIRC, Not for a non-doctrinal issue.

[darylscook]

We do realize that it has to pass a proxy vote? Only pastors or designees can vote. So if Africa has more proxies, then it doesnt matter. It only has to have general consensus.

P.S. I am a pastor also.

You must have been watching the way our last State Overseer did business . But is it supposed to be Overwhelming Consensus not General Consensus.

Pastor Daryl

IIRC, Not for a non-doctrinal issue.

Rambo, not sure what IIRC means.

But Doctrinal Issues are decided by "One Accord"
Non-Doctrinal Issues are decided by "Overwhelming Consensus"

Pastor Daryl

[PastorDaniel]

Rambopreacher,

The historical business model for cogop has included a "One Accord" agreement for doctrinal discussions at the IA, which means that everyone either agrees or is willing to submit.

Any Non-doctrinal business at the local, state, or national level has historically included an "Overwhelming Consensus" which has not really ever been defined but is definitly greater than a simple majority. Something like 80/20...depends on who is moderating... They might see 51/49 as an overwhelming consensus... ...they might want to paint the trim a different color REAL bad...

The cogop does not follow Roberts Rules of Order...at least not exact...

I'm not saying that this hasn't changed....and some local churches and states have implemented various business models....I'm just speaking historically...

[RamboPreacher]

Thanks. Iirc= if I remember correctly.

And yes overwhelming can be defined differently. There is no specified definition in application, based on what I have seen in my short years in the COGOP and having attended only 4 assemblies.

[lance82]

i

agree with you. VOS should have never been closed. what bothers me is that before it was shut down we the people were not asked. it blows my mind that more thought and process is being used for the FOTW. i dont get it. the south east or any other part of the country should not be made to keep it up. good business decisions would make it support itself. but i have heard it will take one million to just get it up to par and then we would have to spend more to turn it into to a money maker. so it depends on where our heart is. VOS was much more important than FOTW as an evangelism tool. i really dont understand turning TC into an on campus school. the lean is toward online education anyway. why not put a million into more staff and a stronger online presence and use the rest to start VOS back up and update FOTW.

I agree. That's why I suggest that the folks that want it fund it. Charge admission, sell it to a splinter group or COG.... something different than what we are doing!!! I found it to be a lovely place. I do not think it is worthy of ministry dollars to keep it up. I don't see how it fits into the Vision 20/20 model.

[RamboPreacher]

It is too bad that so many think that this report is some kind of official direction and that these things will happen, no matter what. there have been emails and letters sent to various ministers about this, and it saddens me to think that people thinkn that this report was an official command as to what will be happening in the COGOP.

am I surprised? no. i have seen this extreme-mentality when the issue of membership came up. then again when it came to the marriage issue. I am relatively new to this organization that I chose to be part of, and I have read that this has been the typical response for other change as well.

It's almost as if "tradition" has become more important than Gods Word. almost like that "what we have always done" must absolutely be infallable.

Personaly, one of the main reasons that I chose to be part of this great organization, even though I grew up "knowing" that it was a "cult", was that it is willing to change and be a fellowship of believers in a covenant of accepting the Bible as the Word of God; promising to believe and practice its teachings rightly divided with the New Testament as our rule of faith and practice, government and discipline, and agreeing to walk in the light to the best of our knowledge and ability.

[PastorDaniel]

Amen Rambopreacher! Amen! I'm all for change. I just want to be a part of it helping it along and not have it dictated to me. However, I'm in agreement with you. I completly understand that these reports are all supposed to be prelimenary and that we are supposed to have a chance to discuss and have input into the final direction.

I'm all about change. I left the church for 10 years. I said I would never come back. But God led me back. And I'm definitly happy with the direction that it is going. Some things are still moving slow...but none the less...they are moving! I'm happy that you are a fellow minister in a Great Church! Pray for me as I attempt to follow God in starting one.

Blessings,
Daniel

[free]

I recently heard Andy Stanley as he was talking about churches, leaders, denominations, etc say that as leaders/churches we have a model and a mission. The problem with many denominations especially is that we "marry" the model and only "date" the mission. When in fact we need to "marry" the mission and only "date" the model.

For almost 100 years CoGoP was married to the model and we dated the mission...Thank God in the last several years we have finally started to "marry" the mission and only "date" the model. To me FoW is part of the model...The old tabernacle is part of the model...Those things aren't bad or wrong but we must make good, sound financial decisions that will help us accomplish the mission God has called us to.

[dawgs10]

i

agree with you. VOS should have never been closed. what bothers me is that before it was shut down we the people were not asked. it blows my mind that more thought and process is being used for the FOTW. i dont get it. the south east or any other part of the country should not be made to keep it up. good business decisions would make it support itself. but i have heard it will take one million to just get it up to par and then we would have to spend more to turn it into to a money maker. so it depends on where our heart is. VOS was much more important than FOTW as an evangelism tool. i really dont understand turning TC into an on campus school. the lean is toward online education anyway. why not put a million into more staff and a stronger online presence and use the rest to start VOS back up and update FOTW.

I agree. That's why I suggest that the folks that want it fund it. Charge admission, sell it to a splinter group or COG.... something different than what we are doing!!! I found it to be a lovely place. I do not think it is worthy of ministry dollars to keep it up. I don't see how it fits into the Vision 20/20 model.[/quote

the catch 22 is if we spend money up front from the churchs it could be used to support the ministry. TC on campus is the biggest waste of money we have decided to undergo. my opinion.

[PastorDaniel]

Dawgs...you quoted and replied to your own words...was that intentional?

[dawgs10]

replying to the response of my post.

[MacUser]

It's almost as if "tradition" has become more important than Gods Word. almost like that "what we have always done" must absolutely be infallable.

Ouch. You just painted a target on your back.

Indeed Truth Trumps Indoctrination every single time. We have no need to fear Truth at all.

[paul]

Found this interesting. I quess everything at IQ is up for sale.

http://www.thechurchofgodnc.org