Do you think this is a racist comment?

[Daniel 11:33]

To Pastor Gary,

You know they say that old dogs can't learn new tricks. I don't know about that. But it sure seems kind of narrow minded to scoff and make fun of things that you have not researched. That is kind of like someone saying that Jesus was just a man, and the bible is just a book when they haven't even read it. I give just about anything a chance to be researched that is not directly contradicted by the scriptures. To do any less is to close your mind to possible revelation.

I noticed you didn't address the second example I gave about snopes. That is probably just as well. That could get very contentious.

Can I ask you a question? Have you ever read the book of Enoch? Did you know that numerous verses in that book are quoted in the New Testament? Do you know what the Nephilim are?

Jude 14: And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15: To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Aparently the book of Enoch was considered a recognized book of the prophets, at least by the brother of Jesus, Jude, and the early church fathers. There are quotes from it that are almost exactly the same as the prophecies in Revelations. Whether the translation we have today is an acurate depliction is up for debate. But that quote is indeed in it.

Enoch describes Angels coming down from heaven and mating with women and them baring sons. Many learned scollars of the old text believe this to be referenced in Genesis 6:1-5 and other references as well in the Old Testament. Did you ever think that the alians that people are seeing may be some of Satan's fallen angels or demons as those fallen angels described in Enoch were? Do you think that Satan is merly a spirit, or is he a physical being? He is called in the scriptures "the prince of the powers of the air." Did you ever think the "air" the scriptures are talking about is outerspace? Revelations says he battles with Michael the archangel. If he is only spirit then how does he battle with Michael when we know that Michael is a physical living angel? There are many credible eye witnesses and many videos of flying saucers on record. You won't see them in the mass media, but they do exist.

I realize that many of these things are scoffed at, but people scoffed at Columbus. They did that for two reasons. Either they didn't understand the scientific observations that were made by him, or they refused to open their mind to them, and chose to stay in the darkness of ignorance. My question is which one applies to the scoffers of today.

[Daniel 11:33]

Michael, if you read my book you will find that the people you quoted, although they were right were only scratching the surface.

[Mike Vande]

Mike Vande,

It is not just wako websites that have shown many of the secrets of the Masonic order. The history channel had a histories mysteries program on called "Secret Societies" and uncovered many of the rituals that are done.

Garbage. I don't know the producers of the History Channel or what their agenda is, I don't know you or what your agenda is, but I did know my father, and I believe what HE had to say about it, particularly because he was there, and went through it all. ALL, dude. 32nd degree IS as the highest masonic rank, excepting for an honorary 33rd degree that is awarded after retirement from holding office. All the stuff you're spouting is garbage, whether you know it or accept it or not. Besides which, what with the other stuff you have posted, it is clearly evident you are just another hysterical conspiracy theory bozo, one of the many unreliable yahoos that infest the internet, and I wouldn't believe a word you have to say about anything important.

Vande

Vande

[Mike Vande]

I don't need to dream up theories which may or may not be true about Free Masonry when there are abundant words from influential world leaders throughout the 20th and 21st centuries who fully acknowledge and actually promote a New World Order where our Constitutional sovereignity would be completely eliminated. That disturbs me as it should any American who loves freedom, i.e. the principles this country was founded upon.

Mike,
this may not sit well with you, but I am not sure how much it ought to matter to a citizen of New Jerusalem. My home is not of this world, and hasn't been since I accepted the lordship of Christ.
Vande

[Daniel 11:33]

Mike Vande,

It is not just wako websites that have shown many of the secrets of the Masonic order. The history channel had a histories mysteries program on called "Secret Societies" and uncovered many of the rituals that are done.

Garbage. I don't know the producers of the History Channel or what their agenda is, I don't know you or what your agenda is, but I did know my father, and I believe what HE had to say about it, particularly because he was there, and went through it all. ALL, dude. 32nd degree IS as the highest masonic rank, excepting for an honorary 33rd degree that is awarded after retirement from holding office. All the stuff you're spouting is garbage, whether you know it or accept it or not. Besides which, what with the other stuff you have posted, it is clearly evident you are just another hysterical conspiracy theory bozo, one of the many unreliable yahoos that infest the internet, and I wouldn't believe a word you have to say about anything important.

Vande

Vande

I understand your hostility, being the son of the order. but considering this. That very fact is a good reason for people to doubt what your saying. Not only because your emotions have clouded your judgment but because the order is very explicit in its instructions for decieving the masses concerning what its really about. And you seem very willing to carry out those orders. And what do you mean your father went through all of it. Masonry has been arround for hundreds of years. Whats your dads name Mathusala?

If you know so much about the order, answer these. Whats the purpose for the aprone? What do the collombs represent? Who is Hyram Abif?


ps
33 degrees not 32 is the highest order. Even Pikes said this.

[Mike Vande]

I understand your hostility,

You don't even recognize discernment, mistaking it for hostility. Another reason not to take you seriously.

being the son of the order

.

My father was a mason, not I. I was never affiliated with it or any of it's subsidieries (DeMolay, etc) beyond my father's connection. And, he lost interest after achieving the highest ranks that could be gotten to in both the York and Scottish rites. At the time of his death, he hadn't been actively involved for well over 25 years. Not what you'd call real tangled up in it, I'd say...

but considering this. That very fact is a good reason for people to doubt what your saying.

The many reasons for doubting your rantings are prima facie obvious to any reasonable person. That is probably why you don't recognize them.

Not only because your emotions have clouded your judgment but because the order is very explicit in its instructions for decieving the masses concerning what its really about.

Which would mean what you "know" about it is just as likely(perhaps more likely) to be disinformation as what I know about it.

And you seem very willing to carry out those orders.

I am not carrying out anyone's orders, I am exposing you for the hysterical bozo you are.

And what do you mean your father went through all of it. Masonry has been arround for hundreds of years. Whats your dads name Mathusala?

If you knew anything about Freemasonry, you would know that achieving the 32 degree in both the York and Scottish rites is achieving as much as is available to achieve in th Freemasonry. That is going through it all, and my dad did that. There is no need to be Methusela(that is the correct spelling of the name by the way; if would seem you know almost as much about your bible as you do Freemasonry) to know that.

If you know so much about the order, answer these. Whats the purpose for the aprone? What do the collombs represent? Who is Hyram Abif?

frankly, I couldn't care less, nor do I find the knowledge impressive on your part.

ps
33 degrees not 32 is the highest order. Even Pikes said this.

As I said in a previous post, the 33 degree is an honorary award given to a mason upon retiring from holding active office. It requires no study or examination to achieve, signals nothing beyond the end of active service career as a mason, and in sheer fact amounts to nothing more than a commendation. If YOU knew as much as you think you do, you would know that.

Vande

[Daniel 11:33]

I understand your hostility,

You don't even recognize discernment, mistaking it for hostility. Another reason not to take you seriously.

being the son of the order

.

My father was a mason, not I. I was never affiliated with it or any of it's subsidieries (DeMolay, etc) beyond my father's connection. And, he lost interest after achieving the highest ranks that could be gotten to in both the York and Scottish rites. At the time of his death, he hadn't been actively involved for well over 25 years. Not what you'd call real tangled up in it, I'd say...

but considering this. That very fact is a good reason for people to doubt what your saying.

The many reasons for doubting your rantings are prima facie obvious to any reasonable person. That is probably why you don't recognize them.

Not only because your emotions have clouded your judgment but because the order is very explicit in its instructions for decieving the masses concerning what its really about.

Which would mean what you "know" about it is just as likely(perhaps more likely) to be disinformation as what I know about it.

And you seem very willing to carry out those orders.

I am not carrying out anyone's orders, I am exposing you for the hysterical bozo you are.

And what do you mean your father went through all of it. Masonry has been arround for hundreds of years. Whats your dads name Mathusala?

If you knew anything about Freemasonry, you would know that achieving the 32 degree in both the York and Scottish rites is achieving as much as is available to achieve in th Freemasonry. That is going through it all, and my dad did that. There is no need to be Methusela(that is the correct spelling of the name by the way; if would seem you know almost as much about your bible as you do Freemasonry) to know that.

If you know so much about the order, answer these. Whats the purpose for the aprone? What do the collombs represent? Who is Hyram Abif?

frankly, I couldn't care less, nor do I find the knowledge impressive on your part.

ps
33 degrees not 32 is the highest order. Even Pikes said this.

As I said in a previous post, the 33 degree is an honorary award given to a mason upon retiring from holding active office. It requires no study or examination to achieve, signals nothing beyond the end of active service career as a mason, and in sheer fact amounts to nothing more than a commendation. If YOU knew as much as you think you do, you would know that.

Vande

Your obvious ignorance of the this evil order is proof enough that you don't know what your talking about. You can't even answer the simplist questions that even the first degrees can answer. Another reason for no one to listen to you. In your arrogance or should I say dishonesty you claim to know more about the order than one of the most powerful leaders of the order in the US. This quote by Pikes also demonstrates their deception towards the "croud" or masses. As you seem to be carrying out.

Albert Pikes

"That which we must say to the crowd is - we worship a God, but it is the God that one adores without superstition. To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General (of the 33rd degree), we say this, that you may repeat it to the brethren of the 32nd , 31st and 30th degrees - The Masonic Religion should be , by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian doctrine."

Pikes said the 33 degree is the ruling hiarchy in masonry not some honorary degree. Albert Pikes was honored with a statue of him in Washington DC paid for by the Masons. And as this quote also demonstrates the 32 degree is anitiated into the knowledge of the Luciferian doctrine. If your father was a 32 degree mason as you claim, then he must have worshiped Lucifer. Sorry, but X-members of the order have confirmed these facts. If and thats a big if, your being honest then you didn't know your father any better than you know the order.

[Mike Vande]

Pikes said the 33 degree is the ruling hiarchy in masonry not some honorary degree. Albert Pikes was honored with a statue of him in Washington DC paid for by the Masons. And as this quote also demonstrates the 32 degree is anitiated into the knowledge of the Luciferian doctrine. If your father was a 32 degree mason as you claim, then he must have worshiped Lucifer. Sorry, but X-members of the order have confirmed these facts. If and thats a big if, your being honest then you didn't know your father any better than you know the order.

My father never worshipped Lucifer or he would have said so after his conversion to Christ, which was subsequent to his masonic experience. He was quite vocal about any other things he had done wrong, believe me, and I frankly knew him as well as any son can know his father, thank you very much. And I must say that regardless of what you may think you know about the 33 degree, it is in fact merely an honorary conference upon a freemason who has spent his life in service to the order. Of course those who have it would be considered the guys at the top, they have been around the longest and served the most. And, if the 32nd degrees defer to them, it is out of respect for their experience, service and knowledge.

You continue to demonstrate that you are not only stuffed full of disinformation (likely about pretty much everything else as well as the masons), but are in fact a delusional individual suffering (and causing those around you to suffer as well) with an irrationally inflated view of the importance of yourself and your knowledge. You demonstration shows that you are possibly even psychotic, and I am not sure that you should be allowed to continue posting here.

Mr Moderator, I urge you to consider banishing this uninvited accuser of the brethren to the outer darkness where there is the wailing and the gnashing of teeth; he ought to fit in quite nicely there.

Vande

[mercy]

Michael,

In plain simple terms; I think it is an ULTIMATE waste of time and of very little Kingdom good to chase conspriacy theories, to reasearch them or quite frankly get bent all out of shape by them that one sees a conspriacy lurking behind just about every corner. Hence, this is the reason I think it is wacky and therefore makes one who does such things just a bit wacky as well. I think that about sums it up for me.

[Daniel 11:33]

I'm sorry I thought this was on a Christiam forum. Where are the Christians? I must have got the wrong number. I don't find anywhere in the Bible that instructs Christians to call people names because you don't agree with them. Nor do I find in there where they are instructed to condemn them. Or to become there judge, jury, and executioner. From what you wrote you would have me dead and thrown into hell or outer darkness. I believe Jesus said people that felt that kind of hate towards others were murders didn't he?

What Bible do you read?

[mercy]

Daniel,

WHICH is of higher importance-- vellifying the US government or preaching the Gospel to a dying world?

[Pastor Gary]

Yes, I know the title is in all caps because I *AM* shouting.

I'm sorry I thought this was on a Christiam forum. Where are the Christians? I must have got the wrong number. I don't find anywhere in the Bible that instructs Christians to call people names because you don't agree with them. Nor do I find in there where they are instructed to condemn them. Or to become there judge, jury, and executioner. From what you wrote you would have me dead and thrown into hell or outer darkness. I believe Jesus said people that felt that kind of hate towards others were murders didn't he?

What Bible do you read?

You seldom speak of Christ --- most of your posts are of the black-helicopter, new-world-order, illuminati, posse-comitatus, Elvis-sighting, "they"-are-out-to-get-us, Jewish-controlled-media, conspiracy-theorist variety usually heard on Art Bell late at night.

Speaking of "condemn(ing) them... becom(ing) there (sic) judge, jury, and executioner." You are the one who set your self up as Judge, Jury & Executioner of Mr. Vande's father, a man you never met, by saying

If your father was a 32 degree mason as you claim, then he must have worshiped Lucifer. Sorry, but X-members of the order have confirmed these facts.

Case closed? Judgement rendered? Sentenced to eternal damnation because you can read his mind and know the motives of his heart?

Then you precede to impugn Mike's honesty and Christian integrity with

If and thats a big if, your being honest then you didn't know your father any better than you know the order.

I have given you much lattitude here to expound your theories and enlighten the rest of us about the secrets of the universe, but your right to post stops at personal attacks like those you just posted.

An apology is in order, and I urge more restraint in the future.
(...he said, finger hovering over the "BAN" button...)

edited by the Moderator to clear Vande's "hinesty." ha ha

[THE RAzEr]

Don't CUT anything. I for one do not even won't to consider, much less impune Mike's "hinesty". Nor do we wish anyone else to do so. Gary, I am hoping that was a typo. But what the ever.

Trying to SEVER the world from missed interpretations.

I am*********************************************************

THE RAzEr

[Mike Vande]

I'm sorry I thought this was on a Christiam forum.

Well, it is Christian forum, I am not sure what a "Christiam" forum is...

Where are the Christians?

We're right here, shaking our heads at you incredible affrontery and arrogance.

I must have got the wrong number.

It appears obvious that you do that on pretty much everything, dude.

I don't find anywhere in the Bible that instructs Christians to call people names because you don't agree with them.

I guess you should have been there to correct Jesus when he called the Pharasees "White-washed tombs", and Paul when he said he wished the circumcision group would go all the way and emasculate themselves. You seem to know better than they did, it's a shame they didn't have access to your, uh, wisdom...

Nor do I find in there where they are instructed to condemn them.

I guess you have yet to read the part of the bible where Paul consigned Hymenaus and Alexander to Satan for the torturing of their flesh that their souls might be saved. You don't really seem to know much about the Bible; guess you're too busy reading Jack Chick comics or something..

Or to become there judge, jury, and executioner. From what you wrote you would have me dead and thrown into hell or outer darkness.

Strictly of the internet variety, I assure you; if you had been around here long enough that your ungracious comments might be construed as something other than presuming upon your welcome, you would know that. Frankly, I find it a bit dubous that didn't know that neither I or Gary have the prerogative to ban you to the real outer darkness. What I think is that you are again making more out of my words than was there. Not that I really care much what you say about me or my family, but just to set the record straight.

I believe Jesus said people that felt that kind of hate towards others were murders didn't he?

Yeah, like calling people you don't know satan worshippers. That sort of hate.

What Bible do you read?

I doubt if you'd be interested in it; it doesn't have a thing in it about how all freemasons are satan worshippers. It doesn't even mention black helicopters. No, I am sure you'd be bored with it, it's just about God and His dealing with people, and you haven't shown any interest in that so far. But hey, there's even a chance for twits like you to repent. I pray God find you and offer you that chance.

Vande

[Daniel 11:33]

Mr Moderator, I urge you to consider banishing this uninvited accuser of the brethren to the outer darkness where there is the wailing and the gnashing of teeth; he ought to fit in quite nicely there.

I believe that is a quote from Mike Vande and From Jesus.

Apparently Gary you have not bothered to read all my posts. You and the other Mike seem to be skipping over direct quotes from both Jesus and Paul.

When I made the statement about Mikes father it was in reference to the quote made by Pike and the claim that he was a 32 degree mason. Do any of you actually read the posts? Pike and many other masons claim the same things that the 32 degree are indoctrinated into the Luciferian doctrine.

Gary you said that the members of TCOG are thin skinned and should not be so sensative about what people say. I believe your demand for an apology is a typical case of the pot calling the kettle black. Its OK for you and others to call me names but when I use quotes from verifyable materials (Pikes) to make a point, you want an apology. Sorry not going to happen.

But don't worry I won't be posting here anymore. I see just what kind of hypocrites im dealing with now.

Be content in your self deception thats all you really have.