Haitian curse

[MacUser]

That is a deep question! lol. I hold a very traditional and orthodox view of the Godhead. Three in one. One essence, three persons. One God, three manifestations with differing roles.

Does that help at all? To be sure, I could have, in the above posts, just as easily said that Jesus' will is ultimate and Jesus created and is upholding the creation (Heb 1).

Not sure if I answered your question..

Sure... and does this reflect was Jesus was saying? Are the three personas that different? Did he say I represent 1/3rd to Philip.. or that if you seen me you've seen the Father?

I just wanted to highlight the Jesus.. under His New Covenant with us.. I find it also interesting to review how He reacted to some of the common issues that confronted him. It clearly wasn't as an aloof individual but someone deeply engaged in the hurts and pains of others around him ( insert many stories here ).

To have the common day atheists or "sinners" of the day absolutely love to be around Jesus... he had to have one magnetic or charismatic personality. He was spending so much time in their homes eating and drinking with them that they accused him of being one from his smell.

Even His first miracles were making the best wine for a large party. He even pitched a rather large fit in the temple. How would that stack up on a Pastor's resume?

We could all state so much more about Jesus... and this was God in the flesh. I just want to be sure we have a correct picture of our Father. The reason he was actually crucified is that he presented/represented a loving God the modern day religious leaders could not accept.

I just seek the truth and I'm learning more and more and appreciate your wonderful insight.

[oletimer]

Tracy let me first say that I have a lot of respect for you. I can see were one would see God making every move for every thing, but thats not the way that He designedHis creations. He made man a free moral agent with ability to choose his own destiny as in John 3:16 "who so ever will". When God spoke the earth into existent, He spoke it with design. If He hadn't then how would you explain how the male and female and all the other that just happen with design.

I have believe that His design is responceable for the wear of the earth and all that make up the earth. Much the same way that our bodies wear down over the years.

Yes God does have the final say in all things, but for the most part it is His design.

I also believe that prayer changes things. He does knows what the out come will be and how it happen.

[Tracy]

I can see were one would see God making every move for every thing,

Goodness. I don't think He does this. I never said that He did!! lol

When God spoke the earth into existent, He spoke it with design.

Yes, and the design is every second upheld by the word of His power. (Heb 1) Nothing happens apart from His ordaining and willing that it happens. The Bible is clear on this point: whether storms or snow or famine or thunder or wind or the growing of a garden--He causes it to happen. It is the influence of the deistic thinking of the enlightenment that has caused modern man to push Him aside in favor of 'natural processes.' And it is a tragedy.

Notice a few verses:

Psalm 135:5-7 The Lord is great...Whatever the Lord pleases, He does, in heaven and in earth...He makes lightening for the rain, and brings forth wind from His treasuries.

Psalm 148:7 Praise the Lord from the earth, sea monsters and all deeps; fire and hail, snow and clouds; stormy wind, fulfilling His word.

Job 37:9-14 Out of the south comes the storm...[God] disperses the cloud of His lightening. It changes direction, turning around by His guidance, that it may do whatever He commands it on the face of the inhabited earth. Whether for a rod...or for lovingkindness, He causes it to happen...Stand and consider the wonders of God!

There are more. The Bible is full of acknowledgement of God's direct involvement in 'natural processes.' You can see it over and over and over again. Never does the Bible teach that 'nature' happens apart from God's continual, specific, and intentional activity. Modern man, having discovered a few natural laws, sets God aside from participation in those laws, but this is utterly foreign to biblical teaching, and in fact would probably be seen as idolatry--attributing to the 'god of nature' what rightfully should be attributed to God.

God is to be worshipped and glorified for His work (see the above verses to learn how we should respond)--we should be stunned and tremble and stand in awe of His power when He works through the elements. Instead, we don't give Him a thought and rather attribute the glory of what He has done to the god of nature. That is idolatry and it robs us of the joy that God intends for us to have as we 'stand and consider the wonders of God.' (see Job 37 above). Instead, we stand and consider the wonders of the god that we have put in His place. A golden calf to be sure.

It is much better to cue off the Bible and what it teaches about God and His involvment in the universe than to cue off the deistic thinkers of the enlightenment.

My thoughts,
Tracy

[Tracy]

Sure... and does this reflect was Jesus was saying? Are the three personas that different? Did he say I represent 1/3rd to Philip.. or that if you seen me you've seen the Father?

I'm pretty sure that I'll mangle the beauty of the Trinity if I wade in too deeply here.

Hebrews says that Jesus is the exact representation of God's nature. Exact is an amazing word in this respect. But yet they are distinct--God the Father didn't die on the cross. Jesus the Son did. I'm not sure how they can be one yet distinct persons. Surely this is part of those 'secret things' in Deut 29:29.

You are right--we could say so much more about Jesus. And that has been a prayer of mine for a long time--that I would, as it were, 'see' Him more--do you know what I mean? I've begun studying Hebrews which has so much to say about Jesus. It's been great.

[MacUser]

I'm not sure how they can be one yet distinct persons. Surely this is part of those 'secret things' in Deut 29:29.

Thanks for the reply.

I'm personally torn if we still have any secret things according to Jesus NC though.. as he states clearly in John 15:15. All things have been made known to you. We are no longer servants but covenant friends that inherit with Him ( sons / daughters as Paul states ).

If we think "secret things" are being held from us then we must not know the Father? This was part of Satan's original ploy against mankind... essentially telling Eve that God was holding out on her.

We just need to have a right understanding of our Father and not labor under some false image of how Satan told us he is. We can labor under misconceptions and miss out on our full inheritance as the older son did in the Prodigal Son parable.

The real image of Daddy is my desire.

[Tracy]

[I'm personally torn if we still have any secret things according to Jesus NC though.. as he states clearly in John 15:15. All things have been made known to you.

I think that means all things that we need to know right now. Even Paul said that we see through a glass darkly. And there will always be things that we don't know--things that are secret to God, because He is infinite and we are finite. The finite can never completely plumb the depths of or fully comprehend the infinite.


Probably Jesus is saying that all things that are necessary for us to know, we know. But that isn't everything there is to know. It is pretty easy to come up with things that God knows that we don't--like how was Jesus fully God and fully man, when is Jesus coming back, what will be the exact nature of the new earth, on and on and on...lol.

Deeeeep thoughts!

[MacUser]

I think that means all things that we need to know right now. .... And there will always be things that we don't know--things that are secret to God, because He is infinite and we are finite. The finite can never completely plumb the depths of or fully comprehend the infinite.

Deeeeep thoughts!

Yes indeed.
My desire is to still know whom the Father is according to Jesus.. and if we do.. much of that is basically answered right?

Jesus said in John 8:31-32.. basically If you live in MY Word.. disciples, shall know the truth, and made free.

Also Paul writes.. 1 Cor 2:2/10.. For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified... (then)... But unto us God revealed them through the Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Again.. under NC with Jesus and having seen what Jesus did, reacted, healed, etc etc.. would God being reflective of Jesus/one the same send a catastrophe? I think according to Jesus' examples we can't arrive at that... but again it's just an opinion.

Possible example could be Adam. He created it.. but allowed Adam to name the animals and have dominion over it and suffer the good with the bad.

Is he this disconnected infinite being pulling all strings.. or sitting next to Jesus - one and the same?