Thank you, Mr. President

[Tim Elston]

What did Iraq have to do with 9/11?

how about you PROVE how it had nothing to do with it - you are the one that posted it. You have to prove it. you painted with a very wide paintbrush there. rather big words, as it were. it's up to YOU to show how Iraq, had NOTHING to do with 911. you might want to start with your definition of Iraq, perhaps you are talking about the actual land of Iraq, in that case, I am still not sure that it had absolutely nothing to do with 911.

Would you advise attacking a country on the premise that it might have had something to do with 9/11, without being able to demonstrate what it had to do with it?

[RamboPreacher]

What did Iraq have to do with 9/11?

how about you PROVE how it had nothing to do with it - you are the one that posted it. You have to prove it. you painted with a very wide paintbrush there. rather big words, as it were. it's up to YOU to show how Iraq, had NOTHING to do with 911. you might want to start with your definition of Iraq, perhaps you are talking about the actual land of Iraq, in that case, I am still not sure that it had absolutely nothing to do with 911.

Would you advise attacking a country on the premise that it might have had something to do with 9/11, without being able to demonstrate what it had to do with it?

/ignoring you until you provide the proof of your statement of "fact", or rephrase your paradigm. (not that it matters, since I am nobody)

[Tim Elston]

ignoring you until you provide the proof of your statement of "fact", or rephrase your paradigm.

Would anyone else here advise attacking a country on the premise that it might have had something to do with 9/11, apart from any evidence that it did?

[forestwalker]

nothing to do with? not.

What did Iraq have to do with 9/11?

how about you PROVE how it had nothing to do with it - you are the one that posted it. You have to prove it. you painted with a very wide paintbrush there. rather big words, as it were. it's up to YOU to show how Iraq, had NOTHING to do with 911. you might want to start with your definition of Iraq, perhaps you are talking about the actual land of Iraq, in that case, I am still not sure that it had absolutely nothing to do with 911.

You're both smarter and more fair than this Brent.

[RamboPreacher]

nothing to do with? not.

What did Iraq have to do with 9/11?

how about you PROVE how it had nothing to do with it - you are the one that posted it. You have to prove it. you painted with a very wide paintbrush there. rather big words, as it were. it's up to YOU to show how Iraq, had NOTHING to do with 911. you might want to start with your definition of Iraq, perhaps you are talking about the actual land of Iraq, in that case, I am still not sure that it had absolutely nothing to do with 911.

You're both smarter and more fair than this Brent.

maybe, but when he goes on to try to make a change in the subject rather than address the point, I wonder. text only forum; i have been accused of far worse.

[Tim Elston]

when he goes on to try to make a change in the subject rather than address the point, I wonder.

Rambo, I said that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. You said, "nothing to do with it. not." I took your statement to say that Iraq did have something to do with 9/11. To justify an attack against Iraq for 9/11, the burden of proof is on an allegation that it had something to do with 9/11. Apart from evidence, there is no burden of proof on the claim that Iraq had nothing to do with it.

[RamboPreacher]

paintball is funner.
i called you out first, nah, nah, nah, nah boo, boo!!

[pastorables]

Pastorables, are you suggesting that the genocide of the Amalekites in the Samuel narrative is on the table in some sense as a guiding ethic in American foreign policy toward the Middle East? T

Not at all, it's just one of many historical examples concerning the relevance of war in the Middle East. It was just a response to your continual stance against the American policing of terrorist countries.

Nevertheless, I do believe that we need to continue to ally with Israel and support them in their fight against the muslim oppressors.

pa

[pastorables]

Tim,

We could both post many pictures of the travesties of war. In war, everyone loses, but your heart wrenching pictures in no way pardons Saddam and the need for his removal from power. What about the pictures of Saddam's mass killing graves? What about this picture of Nick Berg just before being mercilessly beheaded by Iraqi terrorists?

[one love]

pastorables you are correct.. that moment alone shows the enemy we are fighting. It is sad that some choose to see use as the enemy when they beheaded our soldier on television more then once, it was not done quickly either...

We choose to not hurt the innocent as best as possible, they hurt everyone they can and choose to make them suffer. How innocent they are

[Tim Elston]

your heart wrenching pictures in no way pardons Saddam

Correct.

and the need for his removal from power.

Justice certainly demanded Saddam's removal from power and his execution. Eighty thousand to 100,000 Iraqi civilians lost their lives as a consequence of serving him this justice through an act of war. This is approximately one quarter of the people Saddam killed up through 1991, and at the rate of Saddam's killing from 1992 to 2003, the war most likely resulted in 99% more Iraqis killed from 2003 to 2008 than otherwise would have been.

What about the pictures of Saddam's mass killing graves?

Most of those graves were from the 1970s and 1980s. In the 1990s, there were basically two mass murders: (1) about 100-150K Shiites in the aftermath of the Gulf War, when the US encouraged them to revolt with the implication that we would support them and then President Bush decided not to support them, and (2) when about 100 people were executed in retaliation for a CIA-led attempted coup to depose Hussein in 1996.

After the no-fly zones were established to protect the Kurds in the north and the Shiites in the south, the only known mass execution in the 1990s was in retaliation for the failed coup. Saddam is responsible for the deaths of between 200,000 and 400,000 Iraqis, and almost all of them were prior to and in the immediate aftermath of the Gulf War. He was effectively contained thereafter.

What about this picture of Nick Berg just before being mercilessly beheaded by Iraqi terrorists?

Berg was killed in the event of the Iraq War. His death can in no way justify the decision to invade Iraq. If anything, it is yet another death to consider against it. Iraq became a breeding ground of terrorism as a result of the Iraq War. Al-Qaeda in Iraq, which killed Berg, grew out of the Iraq War, in the power vacuum that ensued as a result of Saddam's deposition.

[Tim Elston]

Not at all, it's just one of many historical examples concerning the relevance of war in the Middle East.

I'm not sure what relevant point this makes. How does a genocide in 1900 BC inform an ethical debate about the decision to invade Iraq in 2003? That wars have happened in the Middle East throughout history is not under question. Whether the Iraq War was ethically undertaken is.

[MacUser]

Pastorables, Rambo and others... see if the failed mindset this great man was warning us about remind you of anyone here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pbp0hur9RU

God Bless.

[one love]

I miss Reagan...
Tim were you against the war from the beginning?

[pastorables]

Not at all, it's just one of many historical examples concerning the relevance of war in the Middle East.

I'm not sure what relevant point this makes. How does a genocide in 1900 BC inform an ethical debate about the decision to invade Iraq in 2003? That wars have happened in the Middle East throughout history is not under question. Whether the Iraq War was ethically undertaken is.

Tim,

To put things in context according to my beliefs, prophetically speaking, I don't know that Iraq could have been avoided. I see the warring of the recent/current years as important tremors leading up to the final earthquake so to speak. Does Armageddon sound familiar?

I'm sure we don't agree on this and that's perfectly okay. Furthermore, I could be wrong all together. I just wanted you to understand where I'm coming from. I just believe that many of the wars that we look at naturally are more spiritually connected that we often realize.

I know that this is a very simplistic approach to the grander picture.

Blessings,
pa