Rethinking, Revisiting, Relearning

[Pastor Gary]

That is Biblical doctrine. "Doctrine" is a Bible word.

Ahhh. A list of disjointed, out-of-context verses... let's all turn to our neighbor and say "Proof texting!"

[ImaPK]

Now show me the scripture with the word DOCTRINE that says that a person can't marry again after they get a divorce. And the one with the word DOCTRINE that says you can't wear a wedding band. And the one with the word DOCTRINE that says you can"t participate in "mixed bathing".

[one love]

Shepherd, if said "sinner friends" come to your church can they still be your friends? IF they continue in their sins for 10 years while attending your church can you still be friends? IF SO, then I applaud you!!! I honestly do!

IF so then why criticize other churches for having "sinners" among their congregations? TCoG, and I know because I was a member, criticizes other churches for having sinners among them. Now you may say not you, One Love may say not him, BUT you guys are ONE BODY are you not. So you cannot claim the good of being ONE BODY and yet separate yourselves from said body when parts of it do wrong. That indeed is Scriptural.

Danny the thoughts of some does not equate to tcog doctrine. That has shown proven over and over. I would love to have thousands of sinners in our congration every sunday, I would loive them and be there friend as well.

ImApk that is biblical doctrine just my point, pauls writings made that clear.I cout you as a friend so do not think I was saying you were judgemental. Some statements are not what TCOG teachings but rather assumed what they teach or what someone may have heard before. Some dont go to doctors but that is not a TCOG doctrine at all.

See my point? Some feel a woman should never wear pants, I do not feel that way at all....

[Shepherd]

That is Biblical doctrine. "Doctrine" is a Bible word.

Ahhh. A list of disjointed, out-of-context verses... let's all turn to our neighbor and say "Proof texting!"

How true.

There I go, using the Bible again.

Why don't we do a poll as to how many believe that "Born Again" is a Bible doctrine?

[Pastor Gary]

That is Biblical doctrine. "Doctrine" is a Bible word.

Ahhh. A list of disjointed, out-of-context verses... let's all turn to our neighbor and say "Proof texting!"

How true.

There I go, using the Bible again.

Why don't we do a poll as to how many believe that "Born Again" is a Bible doctrine?

Shepherd, I have disagreed with you, but have not disrespected you. The listing of dozens of unrelated, out-of-context verses is simply not a way to prove anything. I can GOOGLE with the best of them and prove Hell is an icebox by selective copying and pasting. You dismiss me by using sarcasm after I made a humorous attempt to point out the issue.

"There I go, using the Bible (or at least the snippets of scripture I can find to prop up my view, even though they are wrested from the text without regard for textual, cultural or exegetical context) again."

I met you... Louisville?... and thought I was cordial to you. You have a decent level of education and years of experience in ministry, so I KNOW you are capable of framing a cogent argument for your view that takes a pertinent passage of scripture, in context, on topic. That is a discussion worth happening. Posting a word search of random scriptures doesn't do much to advance understanding.

[Shepherd]

That is Biblical doctrine. "Doctrine" is a Bible word.

The listing of dozens of unrelated, out-of-context verses is simply not a way to prove anything.

It proves exactly what I meant to prove. "Doctrine" is a Bible word. Why do you have a problem with that?

Let's do a poll as to how many believe that if the word "doctrine" is in the Bible at least 50 times, that this proves that it is a Bible word.

What would be the point in presenting a sound exegesis if the response is to be, "That's just doctrine and I don't believe doctrine"?

It is not at all uncommon for Bible scholars as a part of their introduction to point out that a certain word is used in the Bible "x" number of times. I will edit my post to more clearly point out the same. However, I cannot and will not remove the references.

[Shellie]

one love wrote:

btw IF ANYONE thinks doctrine does not matter then they need to read the new testament again.

Therein lies the problem. Doctrine.

The issue really boils down to this...Is our doctrine what the Bible says or is our doctine what we think the Bible says?

[paul]

one love wrote:

btw IF ANYONE thinks doctrine does not matter then they need to read the new testament again.

Therein lies the problem. Doctrine.

The issue really boils down to this...Is our doctrine what the Bible says or is our doctine what we think the Bible says?

You are right Shellie

The word "Doctrine" can also be translated "Teaching." what has hapened sooften is that a group takes a "doctrine" begins to "Teach" it, over time adds their traditions, customs to the doctrine. Over time the traditions and the customs become so intwined with the teaching they become the teching and over shadow the real Bible Doctrine they started out with.
And in some case the tradition teaching is seen as valid and as the Biblical Scriptures. When the two colide, generally one will twist the Bible Doctrine to fit the tradition and customs.

[one love]

one love wrote:

btw IF ANYONE thinks doctrine does not matter then they need to read the new testament again.

Therein lies the problem. Doctrine.

The issue really boils down to this...Is our doctrine what the Bible says or is our doctine what we think the Bible says?

should have qouted my whole post . Sis does repentance equate true biblical doctrine? If so then doctrine matters.
What about if we prayed to other Gods while we claim to serve Jesus as well? Does that matter? Paul said "teach no other doctrine" So my point is sure.

Now does D/R stand biblically I say absolutely, some may disagree but it is all through the bible.

So what is it that you are saying that doctrine is not important? Now I know that is not what you meant but that was the point of my post.
I would say the same for others doctrine that it is their opinion but I must follow the bible to the best of my ability as everyone else. God knows our heart.
God bless

[Full Quiver]

Doctrine is certainly a Biblical word and Christ has a doctrine, love God with your whole being and love everyone else as yourself.

Paul instructed Titus (2:1) to teach those things which would become sound doctrine. Do what? You mean they weren't already doctrine, not from the foundations of the world?

Webster defines doctrine as 2 a : something that is taught b : a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : Wow, Stephen Smith teaches that divine healing is not going to doctors and that if you practice divine healing then you won't go to doctors. IS that TCoG doctrine?


Remarkably the Greek in Titus 2:1 is that same definition,
) teaching, instruction

2) teaching

a) that which is taught, doctrine

b) teachings, precepts


Now I use the Smith example because one pastor's doctrine may differ widely from another pastor's doctrine. Am I saying this is proper, no but it happens regardless of anyone naivety.

We are to build upon the firm foundations of Christ and His Apostles. Our structure and methods will be tried by God's fire and if not proper will burn up. The foundation is what I say over and over again. LOVE GOD and LOVE your FELLOW MAN! If your teachings go against that in any way then you are in danger.


For instance, Dr. Ron has a doctrine that he teaches and practices. If you gossip and it gets back to him then he will have a meeting with you in his office and you will be asked to leave the congregation. After a period of time you may be allowed back but not until your ways are turned.

Obviously not all churches teach this. The word gossip is not even found in the Scriptures. I believe all churches would be far better off if they did exercise this or a form of it. I'm sure some, even hardliners, will disagree with this approach BUT I have found more harmony at CRC than anywhere else I have ever been. Amazingly to some folks disbelief Dr. Ron hasn't asked me to leave.

[one love]

Doctrine is certainly a Biblical word and Christ has a doctrine, love God with your whole being and love everyone else as yourself.

Paul instructed Titus (2:1) to teach those things which would become sound doctrine. Do what? You mean they weren't already doctrine, not from the foundations of the world?

Webster defines doctrine as 2 a : something that is taught b : a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : Wow, Stephen Smith teaches that divine healing is not going to doctors and that if you practice divine healing then you won't go to doctors. IS that TCoG doctrine?


Remarkably the Greek in Titus 2:1 is that same definition,
) teaching, instruction

2) teaching

a) that which is taught, doctrine

b) teachings, precepts


Now I use the Smith example because one pastor's doctrine may differ widely from another pastor's doctrine. Am I saying this is proper, no but it happens regardless of anyone naivety.

We are to build upon the firm foundations of Christ and His Apostles. Our structure and methods will be tried by God's fire and if not proper will burn up. The foundation is what I say over and over again. LOVE GOD and LOVE your FELLOW MAN! If your teachings go against that in any way then you are in danger.


For instance, Dr. Ron has a doctrine that he teaches and practices. If you gossip and it gets back to him then he will have a meeting with you in his office and you will be asked to leave the congregation. After a period of time you may be allowed back but not until your ways are turned.

Obviously not all churches teach this. The word gossip is not even found in the Scriptures. I believe all churches would be far better off if they did exercise this or a form of it. I'm sure some, even hardliners, will disagree with this approach BUT I have found more harmony at CRC than anywhere else I have ever been. Amazingly to some folks disbelief Dr. Ron hasn't asked me to leave.

FQ gossip is biblical and I commend him for that, what a great practice I wish more did that ( even in TCOG)

What Brother SMith believes personally has nothing to do with what TCOG believes. As a matter of fact he was my state overseer and he never taught any of his persoanl convictions, not once.

Now do I agree with them, I have already made that clear. I see the point but if we want to attach one persons views to a entire organzation then all in COGOP are marked the same.I talk to pastors in COGOP that teach the same way we do , more then you think. I know some that feel the doctor is wrong, does that mean COGOP does? NO
I know some in the COG that feels d/r is wrong, jewelry etc.. does that mean they officially believe that way? NO

You can not base a opinion of any organization based upon some personal thoughts and ideas. That is my point.

I know and I am friends with another Baptist pastor (not the one I mentioned before) He believe strictly ( More strict then I haver ever heard in TCOG or COGOP) that women must wear dresses in church, men can not have a beard ( matter of fact he told some in my family that used to sing in COGOP when they sang at a baptist church he was holding a revival in that they were going to hell for having a beard... The most legalistic person I have ever met. Does that now mean all baptist (independent, southern , primitive etc.) Believe that way? NO

So lets not continue to paint such a broad brush. I could tell you all over and over how many denominations I work with and it would not matter. PG can say and you all clap and say amen......
Our local church has some from pentecostal holiness, cog and cogop as well from time to time.

I love ya all but Honestly the judegemental part has not been on our side here.....

fq that post was not entirely aimed at you at all, just the gossip part and Brother smith. I dont want you to assume I was placing the part to you in any way.

[ImaPK]

one love said

I love ya all but Honestly the judegemental part has not been on our side here.....

From your own lips. Being an outsider(neither COGOP nor TCOG)and having lived in Cleveland during "the Concerned" days I have to laugh at that. Through the whole ordeal what is now TCOG was being judgemental towards IO and vice versa. And it continues to this day.TCOG says that COGOP is wrong and COGOP thinks that TCOG is a bunch of fanatics. Both sides can deny it til Hell freezes over but its true. It happens on here all the time. Yall can call it "doctrinal differences" or "not seeing eye to eye" on the scriptures or "interpretation of the scriptures" or "enlightenment" or whatever you want but you're still judging.

[one love]

one love said

I love ya all but Honestly the judegemental part has not been on our side here.....

From your own lips. Being an outsider(neither COGOP nor TCOG)and having lived in Cleveland during "the Concerned" days I have to laugh at that. Through the whole ordeal what is now TCOG was being judgemental towards IO and vice versa. And it continues to this day.TCOG says that COGOP is wrong and COGOP thinks that TCOG is a bunch of fanatics. Both sides can deny it til Hell freezes over but its true. It happens on here all the time. Yall can call it "doctrinal differences" or "not seeing eye to eye" on the scriptures or "interpretation of the scriptures" or "enlightenment" or whatever you want but you're still judging.

where have I been judgemental. I am not speaking of everyone just on here lately.

Second I know how cleveland works I lived there when I was young and my Dad worked with yours some When he was at COGOP HQ

[Full Quiver]

One Love, do you believe CoGoP holds to erroneous doctrine, is an apostate organization, teaches heresy?

If so then you are judgmental.

[ImaPK]

One Love, do you believe CoGoP holds to erroneous doctrine, is an apostate organization, teaches heresy?

If so then you are judgmental.

And COGOP believes that TCOG is a bunch of fanatical traditionalists.