Jude 2

I read elsewhere where someone made the claim that "the split on D&R would be about 90% to 10% at the most, with 90% not yielding to changing our present doctrine." (In other words, he is saying only 10% of COGOP is in favor of changing the current position on Divorce and Remarriage.)

Do you agree?

COGOP members only, please, to keep it honest. After you vote, please post something attesting that you are, in fact, a COGOP member in good standing and the State or Region you are from.

(And if you are part of the Pigeon Forge Mutiny and intend to follow Wade Phillips, please abstain from this poll since you won't be around long enough to see this issue hit the floor in the '06 Assembly -- if it does.)

I am a Pastor and a Bishop in the COGOP. In my area the numbers are very, very close to 100% FOR changing the D&R position. I can only think of 1 or 2 individuals in my REGION against change. 100% of the Pastors I know here are praying for a change.

If the local where I am a member is any indication, then I vote that most want the change. 90% for, 10% against, possibly higher than 90.

I am a COGOP member and at our local church, the vote would be 100% in favor of accepting all Christians. I know this because our church voted before the last GA on this issue after reading the proposed membership changes.

I am a minister in the COGOP. Out of the churches in the Nashville area, the majority of the local churches already accept people in a second marriage as christians. My local church would overwhelming be accepting of this change.

I am a member of CoGoP. Husband is 4th generation, so we tend to travel all the circles and because of his last name, we come into contact with a lot of people.

I can't say that I have met any that is against this change. I probably personally know of less than 10 people now and those are just a quess because they still don't wear a ring.

RuSKY wrote: Immediatly therafter, our clerk/ treasurer divorced and remarried. (both ex-pouses were and still are members)Also, the pastor got a two time D&R (non member) to moderate the sunday night services.

RuSKY,

I do not know the full details of the clerk/treasurer example you gave, but I will say this; as I understood this discussion of change concerning membership/marriage/divorce/remarriage I was under the impression that it was a discussion of divorce before conversion or divorce because of unfaithfulness or abandonment. Your example, it I understand it, is that a "Christian" couple (who happened to be members of the COGOP) divorced, both continuing to claim their relationship with Christ was unaffected, and then the women married another professing Christian (who happened to be a part of the same congregation/church). Are you telling me this was approved and applued by the congregation and the pastor? There was no church discipline or spiritual questions raised?

If this is the future of the COGOP, it will become one of the most liberal denominations in the country. It seems to be implied that the ministry will also go down this road of "disposible" marriages. If this is the plan the COGOP needs to give up any pretext of support for marriage and the family, any lessons taught would be in contrast to practice. Some people are glad their parents (Christian or not) committed to stay together no matter and beleive that that is God's will. If divorce happens, it is a failure, if before conversion it is to be repented of. If divorce happens after conversion it is even more distressing and if it is between two Christians there is a violation of Biblical principles that calls for Church discipline.

I would not be considered an "old liner" on this issue, but one of the most troubling aspects of this whole direction is that without clear Biblical guidelines concerning marriage the COGOP may move from an "historic" Christian view to a "post modern" view by default of each local church doing their own thing. The COGOP in essence will move from the "right" of the other Pentecostal/Holiness type denomiations to the far "left" in a very short time.

I am disappointed in the manner and direction this is taking. The COGOP has not defined marriage as between a man and a women, or given guildlines on what a Biblical marriage is. It has not developed scripture or sturcture to deal with the issue of those who come to Christ with divorce in their past, nor how to respond when Christians divorce. To be so focused on the membership issue blures the need for Biblical answers and direction on divorce.

Often the example of the good Christian wife who has suffered at the hands of an beleiving husband; who has to divorce for the sake of her life and the kids, some years later fines a good Christian man to marry, but then is disfellowship by the church. There is good cause to say she should be allowed to remarry and stay a member. However, what about the long married Christian man who becomes unhappy with his wife (maybe she put on some weight or does not please him sexually), so he divorces her and leaves the kids behind, marries a younger, thinner and sexier women, and continues at the same local church. Should he remain a member. The path the COGOP is going down will make room for both. I can not see how, with the new current practices, as you mentioned at you local church, it could be any different. If phyical abuse is grounds for divorce and remarriage, then a poor sex life is also grounds.

I am not attacking you, nor this lady at your church, nor your local church. I am saying that the COGOP is not ready to deal with the issues that will be raised related to marriage and divorce when it comes to membership.

That is just my opinion, but already today a person who talks about how they "kept" their relationship with God through three bad marriages will get more attention and praise then a person to talks about how they stayed married to the same person all their lives. Our post modren society relates to failure (as in Bill Clinton) better then it does to committment.

Firstson

In alabama it is more of an issue but i would say 70/30 for change but the 30 would be very vocal we had a very loud and abnoxious crowd walk out on brother murray when he was discussing the jewelry issue back in the 90's. TCOG is welcome to those who can not or will not see the need

Iam a member and pastor in alabama cogop

I want the church to get on the right track because i accept everyone who comes to christ does not mean that i believe they do not need discipleship.
And because I don't judge anyones marital status as their worth as a member does not mean that i Think we should not fight to keep families together.

I am a member also.. 35 + Years.

I would 75 for 20 on the fence 5 against.



Rusky Said
Anyway, about a years ago the S.O. at that time, came and taught that D&R was right.


You sure about that ...D/R was right part? Accepting somebody who was/hasbeen D/R as a member of the local church. Yes.. But D/R right???

Billy n NC

I am CoGoP, from the PNW. I can't speak for our region, but from what I see locally, I would have to say that we are at the very least 90% in favor of change, if not 100%.

Pastor Gary wrote:(And if you are part of the Pigeon Forge Mutiny and intend to follow Wade Phillips, please abstain from this poll...)

No skull & crossbones flag flying mutineer here.

I voted based on the ministry in Mississippi that I knew. 75 against change and 25 for change.

Pastor Daryl

I am a cogop member. Not sure how "good" my standing is, but I am official.

In thinking of my local cogop congregation, I voted 50/50. Our church is almost totally operated by spirit-filled individuals who are not eligible for membership according to the current requirements. So, they couldn't "vote" but I included them in my numbers, in that they would be in favor of a change. Just as a note, these are individuals who have been "in the church" all their lives, and have positions of leadership, but who are not members because of d/r status.

*Poimen wonders if someone could post the results for the beneifit of those who are non-Cogop

*Poimen wonders if others realize non-voting guests can't see the current results of the poll

*Poimen thinks Pastor Gary want be too upset at his interjection, especially since he only "thought" about it, and did not actually post it.



*Poimen thinks to himself that about now he would usually close with...

God Bless

Poimen

I voted 50/50 here. I'm not totally sure. But that's my guess. I'm a member and minister. Daryl, I didn't see a vote for the 75/25. It says (0). I voted earlier (7:25am or so), but didn't post yet. Students started coming in the door. On lunch at the moment. But anyway, God Bless.

Tim

Poimen whispers * psssssst... hey guys, if you are not signed in you can se the results as a guest.





later