Jude 2

Since this valid question was brought up on another thread, I thought I would officially open it up.

By the way, I believe that anyone, past, current, or future (Vande, we're believing you'll come into the one fold ) members should be allowed to have a say.

And if it is possible, if a person that is no longer a member of our denomination states their view, try to stick on topic without personally attacking the person for their view. We should be mature enough to learn from our past.

I think the CoGoP definitely needs to apologize. expecially for the way they handled that embezzlement situation a few years ago.

I have no respect for the government of the CoGoP

wendy k

teach wrote:I think the CoGoP definitely needs to apologize. expecially for the way they handled that embezzlement situation a few years ago.

I have no respect for the government of the CoGoP

wendy k

Response: How did they handle it?

they have at our local churches and region.

scooter wrote:

teach wrote:I think the CoGoP definitely needs to apologize. expecially for the way they handled that embezzlement situation a few years ago.

I have no respect for the government of the CoGoP

wendy k

Response: How did they handle it?

They handled it by not handling it. Instead of fulfilling their fiduciary responsibilities to us, the membership, by prosecuting the fraud, they just let it go. They were VERY poor stewards of the Lord's money.

DaJudge wrote:

scooter wrote:

teach wrote:I think the CoGoP definitely needs to apologize. expecially for the way they handled that embezzlement situation a few years ago.

I have no respect for the government of the CoGoP

wendy k

Response: How did they handle it?

They handled it by not handling it. Instead of fulfilling their fiduciary responsibilities to us, the membership, by prosecuting the fraud, they just let it go. They were VERY poor stewards of the Lord's money.

Response: I guess there are different ways to look at it. I'll just say they handled it much more graciously than I could have.

I respect them for doing what I don't think I could have.

scooter wrote:
I respect them for doing what I don't think I could have.

Had it only happened once, I suppose I could see your point. After multiple instances of fraud over the years, though, I think at some point you have to take a stand, and say, "NO MORE".

I believe the COGOP was doing the best it knew to do in the past,they have come a long way,I know a lot of people were hurt due to the way some of the things have been done.I believe as more and more people have been educated a lot of wrong has been made right.I believe the COGOP is on the right track and will only get better and better,the people seem to be ready and willing to follow God instead of a man.I am no longer a member,but I still have family in this organization. It does no good to look back but we need to continue on following God and doing the best that we can.

It would probably make a lot of people mad if they were apologized to and may even make things worse.

DaJudge wrote:

scooter wrote:
I respect them for doing what I don't think I could have.

Had it only happened once, I suppose I could see your point. After multiple instances of fraud over the years, though, I think at some point you have to take a stand, and say, "NO MORE".

Response: I don't know all the details of multiple instances.

I don't consider the whole investment loss thing fraud. That type of loss happens in the market. It's understandable to some degree. I know of individuals who lost in like manner in the dot com bubble burst.

As far as the OZ funds thing it is an awful thing to betray trust. I can't imagine the heart sickness apart from finances. Not knowing all the details of what transpired, I trust they made a Christlike decision.

I don't think they were slackers or poor stewards but rather possibly in over their heads.

scooter wrote:

DaJudge wrote:

scooter wrote:
I respect them for doing what I don't think I could have.

Had it only happened once, I suppose I could see your point. After multiple instances of fraud over the years, though, I think at some point you have to take a stand, and say, "NO MORE".

Response: I don't know all the details of multiple instances.

I don't consider the whole investment loss thing fraud. That type of loss happens in the market. It's understandable to some degree. I know of individuals who lost in like manner in the dot com bubble burst.

As far as the OZ funds thing it is an awful thing to betray trust. I can't imagine the heart sickness apart from finances. Not knowing all the details of what transpired, I trust they made a Christlike decision.

I don't think they were slackers or poor stewards but rather possibly in over their heads.

and they should have realized they were in over their heads and called pressed charges

wendy k

teach wrote:
and they should have realized they were in over their heads and called pressed charges

wendy k

Response: That's exactly what my flesh wanted too, that makes me leary.

I meant they were in over their heads in the amount of things/people they were responsible for.

As I get older I find my reactions differ, but maybe if they had only known there was a twenty year old with skills to fix all their ills, things would have been different.

Should COGOP apologize to individuals they kept out of the church for things they now allow?

No longer being a member of the COGOP, my immediate thought was a resounding, "ABSOLUTELY!!"

But to be very transparent, I joined the organization with my own free will, consumed its teachings, and was as big an advocate as the next brother and sister. Could I claim ignorance? Being "brain-washed"? Certainly, but I would be hypocritical in doing so. The Lord brought back to my memory my early years in COGOP, where I marched shoulder to shoulder with the all the other flag-waving legalists, shaking my head in bewildered disapproval of those "other sheep" lost from the fold.

"...things they now allow..." brings to mind such "evil practices" as wearing jewelery and make-up, going to "worldly amusements" like movies and ballgames, wearing shorts and going swimming in public. Misappropriating funds or literal monetary fraud didn't cross my mind.

Of course the "biggie" would be divorce and remarriage, the one issue that drove potential members aways by the tens of thousands, resulting in the loss of an entire generation.

Should they apologize? If so, let me be the first to say, "I'm sorry."

soulsearcher said

Of course the "biggie" would be divorce and remarriage, the one issue that drove potential members aways by the tens of thousands, resulting in the loss of an entire generation.

I have never been a member of COGOP, but growing up in it this one always "stuck in my craw". We had a couple at the church we attended in California that had been married to other people prior to their marriage and had to get a divorce after they got saved and wanted to join the church. They both, along with their daughter, kept attending the church after the divorce. They lived in seperate houses. I don't remember if they ever sat together during a service. Their daughter use to babysit me when I was little and to this day is one of my oldest friends. I use to feel sorry for them because of the "rule" the church had on divorce.

Without a doubt apologies should be made.

We have hurt many through out the years and if done unnecessarily, then by all means let us apologize.

Remember what the Word says about a brother who has been offended, it is easier to conquer a strong city than to win a brother who has been offended. If we might, through our willingness to apologize, win even one and see them saved from the fires of hell then let us echo our apologies from the highest mountain top and loud enough for everyone to hear.

Yes, I have done so, and I have seen it work both good and not so good. But this one thing I do know, I have seen the hardest of hearts melted by the fire of the Spirit of the Lord through a sincere apology.

As for the mess at International Offices a few years ago...

First, I am grieved that a fellow minister and brother fell to the temptation of the adversary. A fellow minister is on dangerous ground and in danger of the judgment of God and but for the Grace of God, there go I.

Second, please consider that the Word of God tells us that we are not to take our brother to Law... The very Word that we proclaim teaches us that we as the body of Christ are not to exact punishment upon an erring brother or sister, but we are to withdraw fellowship in an attempt to get them to see the error of what they have done and seek forgiveness. Even God did not desire to "harm" Israel. In fact He told the prophet to tell His children of the evil He was going to bring up on them, not to punish them, but that they might realize the shape they are in and repent.

Thirdly, I think it is only fair to point out that the abuse that is being spoken of is from (for the lack of better wording) previous administration. We have new leadership, new financial leadership as well. To openly disrespect them is to undermine their ability to effectively change the way things have been. Our new leadership is barely six months old, let's give it a chance before we openly hack the legs they stand on out from under them.

God bless...

Pastor Don Johnston

scooter wrote:

teach wrote:
and they should have realized they were in over their heads and called pressed charges

wendy k

Response: That's exactly what my flesh wanted too, that makes me leary.

I meant they were in over their heads in the amount of things/people they were responsible for.

As I get older I find my reactions differ, but maybe if they had only known there was a twenty year old with skills to fix all their ills, things would have been different.

first of all, I am 25, not 20.

second of all, I never said I could fix their ills, I just said they didn't handle it right.

Don't get me wrong. I know that I DON'T have all the answers.

And, I would like to point out that I hold no bitterness towards them either.

wendy k