Jude 2

I came away from my Teen Sunday School class very troubled this morning. I went in prepared to teach a lesson about "Community" and how each of them have the power to make a difference in their communities. The message they sent me, very loud and clear, is that they are not interested in making an impact on their communities. They have a clear-cut idea of the way things are and how they think some things should be worked out:

1) You really have no true choices in life because everything is genetically & spiritually predetermined. If God knows the past, present, & future he already has your life preprogrammed, so choices are meaningless. We're really just his toys.

2) Humans are the only "animals" who don't operate by natural selection, and that is just plain stupid. If we let the diseased & mentally ill die out, that would be more natural. Compassion, in a sense, is a weakness.

3) The misfits of society, such as the homeless, should be shot so that society would be more healthy. (Someone actually said this -- someone who has been in church his whole life).


I'd like to know what you all think about this. Is this just teenagers sounding off? The fact that I actually heard these things come out of the mouths of our church kids really alarmed me. I'm quite troubled by it. Are young people everywhere thinking like this?

Wow


I almost have no words for what you just described....

but, in a way, I am not that surprised. As a high school teacher, I am very aware of the biggest problem I believe our young has: selfishness. Everything and everyone revolves around the life of one child, or so they think.

wendy k

Dar wrote:
I'd like to know what you all think about this. Is this just teenagers sounding off? The fact that I actually heard these things come out of the mouths of our church kids really alarmed me. I'm quite troubled by it. Are young people everywhere thinking like this?

These things didn't get this way overnight and "no" I am not alarmed by this. As teach stated " today's kids are so selfish" and they have bought into the world view of almost every thing, i.e., pre-marital sex is okay if you love the person, something is true if I believe it to be, etc...

My son is only five and he deals with issues among school peers that shouldn't be pressing until the teen years, etc....

God give us wisdom.

pa

My son is only five and he deals with issues among school peers that shouldn't be pressing until the teen years, etc...

What more reason does a parent need to yank them out of public school and those ungodly influences?

Teens have probably always been more self-focused, but, I wouldn't have expected that kind of response! I want to encourage you, don't despair but pray for your teens, and keep working on teaching them what the Bible says about our duty to care for those who are weak and less fortunate. You have got your work cut out for you, but God is bigger!

Full Quiver wrote:

My son is only five and he deals with issues among school peers that shouldn't be pressing until the teen years, etc...

What more reason does a parent need to yank them out of public school and those ungodly influences?

FQ,

I wish it were that simple. My wife and I work around 60 hours weekly and the closest Christian school would be an impractical drive for our schedule.

Public school isn't a only a choice for us, but a necessity.

pa

Jennifer Smith wrote:Teens have probably always been more self-focused, but, I wouldn't have expected that kind of response!

You haven't visited MySpace much have you? I do not have a MySpace account, but I have visited several spaces of teens and college students. I have been literally shocked at the values of youth today. One young girl I know actually seems proud to call herself "whore" on her space.

Please, no one tell me this is acceptable today. I will just say, "Bah Humbug"...

pa

I know things are worse now than when we were kids in many ways, which is to be expected; the moral climate overall has gotten worse. But, this generation has some admirable qualities; they are close-knit and unpretentious as they relate to one another, and in many ways they don't have all of the same baggage inherited from previous generations.

Driving the bus for high school I have heard and seen a lot that I don't remember being quite so commonplace or vivid 20 years ago.
Some things, though that would shock us we need to understand so we can relate to them without our mouths dropping open. And so we can pray.

At the ladies retreat last week I went to a mom's class. The mom teaching said she talked to teens about what would shock their parents if they were at school with them.

Some things the kids mentioned were: constant use of the F word, oral sex being performed at school, teachers who speak in a positive way about partying involving drinking, teachers who party with the kids,
presence of drugs, presence of alcohol.

Of course, I would like to think Indiana is better, but having been on the bus with the kids what I saw and heard lets me know that it is bad here too. But none of these things discourage me, we have simply got our work cut out for us and the main thing we need to do is pray.

pastorables wrote:You haven't visited MySpace much have you? I do not have a MySpace account, but I have visited several spaces of teens and college students. I have been literally shocked at the values of youth today. One young girl I know actually seems proud to call herself "whore" on her space.

At the constant urging of some of my young members I got a MySpace and check it daily. I read what our teens write and don't hesitate to respond with some fatherly/grandfatherly tough love now and then.

Yes; girls openly proclaim themselves to be "A ho fo' sho'" and "slut". It hurts deeply to imagine the kind of low self-esteem, and even lower GOD-esteem that would cause a young woman, fearfully and wonderfully made in the image of the Living, Loving God to disrespect and dishonor herself that way.

Disclaimer: No offense is intended to the fine teachers represented here on Jude 2!

I think this is evidence of the crippling effect of steady doses of evolution on our youth. They are constantly told that they are here by accident, the product of random chance, and those FOOLISH and BACKWARD Christians don't know what they are talking about! If this is true, then there ARE no choices nor are there consequences. Why NOT be a 'ho and do whatever you want with whomever you want whenever you want?

Children are bombarded with this from the time they are 5 until they are 18 and beyond in Government schools. It is no wonder that up to 88% of those who are RAISED IN THE CHURCH in North America leave the faith by the end of their freshmen year of college. It also explains why the rest of the culture is so against Biblical Christianity. We are just DUMB HICKS who don't know any better!


"If we continue to send our children to Caesar for their education, we need to stop being surprised when they come home as Romans" Voddie Baucham

Dar,
You may if you wish use any or all of my response the next time you encounter the teens in your Teen Sunday School Class. I will attempt to respond to each of the points.

First, their lives are not preprogrammed. Yes, God knows the future, and the choices that we will make. However, He allows us that choice because He desires our love, and real love is given by a free choice. One cannot be mandated to love someone.

Second, compassion is one of the qualities that raises us above the level of the animals. Compassion is a virtue not a weakness.

The third point is one that really has me wondering about these young people. Do they not realize that a large percentage of the homeless are veterans. Many of which are Viet Nam era vets, men who were sent to fight the one of the dirtiest wars in history. Men who have images burned into their memories that these kids could not begin to imagine. When they came home the government turned it's back on them and the society that sent them to do it's dirty work shunned them. Years of social neglect and treating them as a pariah has taken it's toll. And these kids want to repay them with a bullet through the head?

What is the next step? Kill everybody over thirty, because everybody knows your over the hill at thirty.


TW

The spirit of this generation could willingly, joyfully feed Christians to the Lions...Literally, as well as figuratively...It will take the same formula it's always took, sacrificing of our time, prayer and fasting to reach a lost and dying world who daily glorifies all the wrong things and continually shows contempt for what is right, good and holy...

Pastor Ables I too work a lot but found an online homeschool that is totally free. I took my son out of public schools for the same reasons mentioned. The student can work at their own pace at any time. Check this site to see if they operate in your area. It is funded by the public school system. They send you all the books and materials totally free.

www.k12.com

Dar wrote:2,I'd like to know what you all think about this. Is this just teenagers sounding off? The fact that I actually heard these things come out of the mouths of our church kids really alarmed me. I'm quite troubled by it. Are young people everywhere thinking like this?

I think a big part of the problem is that parents are not doing the job they should be doing in dilligently teaching and training the children that God has given them. The ideas that these children have are things that their parents should be correcting and teaching their children to refute, not embrace.

If they are learning these things at school, remove them from that school. If they are learning these things on television, turn off the television. If they are learning these things from peers, then change the peers. Eternity is at stake. Our youth are largely going the way of the world: headed straight to hell. Folly is bound up in the heart of a child and they are making foolish decisions about what they believe. What they need are parents who will step in and make hard decisions for them.

I have thought for a long time that what the church should be doing is educating parents. The church is failing at being 'surrogate' parents for children--stepping in where parents ought to be. It isn't working.

My 2 cents,
Tracy

Dar wrote: 1) You really have no true choices in life because everything is genetically & spiritually predetermined. If God knows the past, present, & future he already has your life preprogrammed, so choices are meaningless. We're really just his toys.

Tell them God is like the Goodyear blimp. He sees farther than people "on the ground" can. However, He doesn't mess with free will. Everyone is daily faced with choices, and God leaves the choices up to them. The fact that he knows how they will decide doesn't stop Him from offering the choices. To a human being, that would become maddeningly frustrating and boring. But God is not a human being, and is working out something more than we are capable of understanding..

Dar wrote:2) Humans are the only "animals" who don't operate by natural selection, and that is just plain stupid. If we let the diseased & mentally ill die out, that would be more natural. Compassion, in a sense, is a weakness.

Letting the diseased and mentally ill die out is natural for animals, and so is male animals killing off their male offspring so they won't compete with them for breeding rights when they grow up, which animals also do. Running around naked would be natural too, but people were smart enough to figure out that clothes kept more of them from becoming diseased and dying in the winter time. Letting females die in childbirth and from complications afterwards would be natural too, and happened a lot before people figured out ways to keep it from happening. There are a lot of things that are natural for animals that are not natural for people, because humans are not animals. That is why we operate differently.

Dar wrote:3) The misfits of society, such as the homeless, should be shot so that society would be more healthy. (Someone actually said this -- someone who has been in church his whole life).

Well, then you have to decide who makes the choice between those who are shot and those who are not, and based upon what criteria, which would necessitate the creation of a government bureaucracy to regulate and execute the program. People who aren't perfect physical specimens would eventually wind up being shot because they would produce inferior offspring, although they might be offering the choice between being shot or submitting to sterilization, because they could be valuable as grunt labor. After that, the new bureaucracy could decide to include people who disagree with their political philosophy, because they might be mentally ill. Tell them it has already been tried, in Germany, during the '30s and 40s. It didn't fly...

Dar wrote:I'd like to know what you all think about this. Is this just teenagers sounding off? The fact that I actually heard these things come out of the mouths of our church kids really alarmed me. I'm quite troubled by it. Are young people everywhere thinking like this?

Teenagers can be like sharks who smell blood in the water. If they have discovered that you feel even slightly insecure about being in front of them teaching, they will push your buttons just to liven things up, especially in a class that they don't have to worry about getting a grade out of. It's possible they saw how you were affected by what they said and decided to see how far they could push it.

I'd say that you should take it as a sign that you need to find a way to liven the class up, if you want to regain control of it. They will make Sunday mornings miserable for you if you don't. You know more than they do, and don't let them forget it. Don't you forget it either.