Jude 2

Let me say upfront that this is not intended to start a fight with anyone, but rather to alert whoever is responsible that a correction needs to be made on the TCOG website. As is my habit, I was browsing the net when I happened to check out the website for The Church of God… A nice enough looking site, professionally done, clean and well organized. I clicked on the “Information” tab, and pulled up a page that gives the history of the church. The first paragraph caught my eye.

The founding of The Church of God occurred when Jesus Christ called together his twelve apostles (Mark 3:13-19) and with them organized His Church. According to the history of the Church, this occurred approximately 28 A.D. on the Horns of Hattin near Jerusalem in Palestine, now known as Israel.

Someone may wish to contact TCOG Headquarters and have them correct this paragraph. I am a student of history, with an accompanying interest in geographical sights dealing with that history. The phrase, “on the Horns of Hattin near Jerusalem in Palestine,” stood out. Having studied the Battle of Hattin between the Crusaders and Saladin I knew that the Horns of Hattin were of some distance from Jerusalem (actually 72 miles), hardly what would be considered “near.” While in truth, the Bible does not say exactly where the event occurred, a more likely candidate would be Mount Eremos, also known as Karn Hattin, about 12 miles from the Horns of Hattin (see photo). Mount Eremos is a hill right outside of the town of Capernaum, where Jesus was abiding at that time. It took only 15 minutes to ascertain this information, surely an organization such as an international church denomination could do a better job at researching facts before they placed them on the web for the entire world to see.

What kind of impression does it make on someone when the very first paragraph of the church history is in such obvious error? What does that do to the creditability of anything that follows?




TW

Oooh.... I think you are right. I have never heard anyone say "Horns of Hattin" but I think I have heard "Karn Hattin" and most often "Mt. Hattin". Whoever posted that probably just looked up "Hattin" to find an official name and assumed that was the correct one.

Thanks for the heads up, TW!

I looked up the "Horns of Hattin" on Google Earth, and found the site that you spoke of, but there was alos another place called "Kurun Hattin" or "Horns of Hattin" nearer the Sea of Galilee. It had a link to a student manual of ancient geography...

http://books.google.com/books?id=KGwDAA ... OrpGkT3mkg


This would make more sense because in one of the Church history books it says , "Historical and geographical data indicate that the montain was the Horns of Hittin, of Kurn Hattin, some five miles west of the Sea of Galilee."

So, I'm no expert, but this sounds like there's more than one place called "Horns of Hattin". But I would have to take more time to find more sources to confirm that.

Oh and thanks for the kind words about our website design, etc.

They do teach Horns of Hattin. A2JGirl need only ask her pastor but they teach the two places are one in the same. Thanks for the info TW; I never thought to look.

It took only 15 minutes to ascertain this information, surely an organization such as an international church denomination could do a better job at researching facts

Never say research facts when referring to the organization that you were referring to.

Full Quiver wrote:They do teach Horns of Hattin. A2JGirl need only ask her pastor but they teach the two places are one in the same. Thanks for the info TW; I never thought to look.

Actually, they cite both titles (Kurn or Karn Hattin, and Horns of Hattin) in reference to the one mountain/spot. It has always been the one near to Capernaum (if I recall correctly).

Never say research facts when referring to the organization that you were referring to.

I see many of the faults I could not see before now that I am out of TCOG. They have no more or no less problems than other churches in general have or have had, however unique their views. But I still respect that it is my heritage, my mother church as it were, which brought me to faith in Christ. It hurts me to see you make such a slight against them. Those people are my family, my friends, my fellow believers -- and yours.



As for research ...

It was very much researched. Again, from memory here, the COGOP had aid from Israel in locating the spot when obtaining permission to erect the CPMA marker there that memorializes the establishing of the church by the Lord.

It is possible misinformation worked it's way in. It is also possible better information and evidence has become available since then. I doubt it has been researched over again since the marker was set by the CPMA years ago. No one has probably seen a need to (yet).

Poimen wrote: I se many of the faults I could not see before now that I am out of TCOG. They have no more or no less problems than other churches in general have or have had, however unique their views. But I still respect that it is my heritage, my mother church as it were, which brought me to faith in Christ. It hurts me to see you make such a slight against them. Those people are my family, my friends, my fellow believers -- and yours.

Poimen did you recieve the Gospel the very first time thru TCOG and first come to know Jesus there and get saved?
You didn't "come back" to Him there and transfer from another church?
If so, that's cool! Shows the sovereignty of God who will use whoever He wants to reach someone. A lot of times the membership of these type of groups with a "special" message just like the Apostolics and "Jesus only" in the same way seem to usually come from transfers from other churches, so that's kind of unique.

ichthus wrote:Poimen did you recieve the Gospel the very first time thru TCOG and first come to know Jesus there and get saved?
You didn't "come back" to Him there and transfer from another church?
If so, that's cool! Shows the sovereignty of God who will use whoever He wants to reach someone. A lot of times the membership of these type of groups with a "special" message just like the Apostolics and "Jesus only" in the same way seem to usually come from transfers from other churches, so that's kind of unique.

Not exactly. I was initially saved in COGOP. At the time COGOP was essentially identical to TCOG. Same beliefs, same people, etc. In fact the church I was saved in was one of the first here to go with the concerned, become TCOG, etc.

However, I was very young the first time I responded to the gospel. When I got saved and stuck I was 15, it was in TCOG. It was shortly thereafter I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost and received my call to preach.

Poimen wrote:
Not exactly. I was initially saved in COGOP. At the time COGOP was essentially identical to TCOG. Same beliefs, same people, etc. In fact the church I was saved in was one of the first here to go with the concerned, become TCOG, etc.

I can say... for my part of the CoGoP world, TCOG was NOTHING like CoGoP. It may have been nearly the same on paper but it was nothing alike.

Ilovebigcats wrote:I can say... for my part of the CoGoP world, TCOG was NOTHING like CoGoP. It may have been nearly the same on paper but it was nothing alike.

JUst curious: How so?

Gerald Creasy wrote:

Ilovebigcats wrote:I can say... for my part of the CoGoP world, TCOG was NOTHING like CoGoP. It may have been nearly the same on paper but it was nothing alike.

JUst curious: How so?

Well, in TCOG... it was frowned upon if I wore shorts, makeup, hair color, we used all of the auxiliaries and helps... VLB, WMB, CPMA, ABM, SS, BTI.

In CoGoP... I had only heard of the WMB because of the assembly. The only real active one was VLB. We went to a rare band meeting but I never knew it was ABM. I could wear makeup, hair color... some wore jewelry in Halloween costumes. Let's put it this way.... if I pulled out some old CoGoP pics MANY of the TCOGgers would be SHOCKED and embarassed at how they were dressed and made up.

The basics were there in CoGoP but TCOG went crazy doing it to the extreme. TCOG is far more strict in having rules and regulations and "advice" than CoGoP ever was in my area. Of course... what is strange is.. it was the same people.

From memory... I have more fun memories in CoGoP... lasting memories. In TCOG I have more of a legalistic memory. Of course many blame that on my own doings but it is what they teach.. many just only pick and choose what they live.

Hard to explain but it was totally different for me.

Chris, I am sorry that my comments "offend" you. I know that things you do offend me but yet you do them and take great joy in it and telling of those experiences. I was raised Baptist and I cannot swallow what I was taught by them as far as OSAS. If they would do a bit of research themselves they would see that really they don't believe that either. Their forefathers did not teach it the way they do.
As far as TCoG and Hattin goes, yes they say both so which was it? For a pastor, evangelist, teacher, etc. to stand in the pulpit under the anointing of the Lord and declare what the website says is hogwash. I will not believe that God blesses lies. TCoG says they are it and if anyone and everyone else would actually study to shew themselves approved unto God then they would see the same thing. It is HIGH TIME that TCOG take their own advice family & friends included. If your family or my family spills out lies, falsehoods, and false info then we should call them on it. They will still be our family and maybe we can help them see their error.

Full Quiver wrote:Chris, I am sorry that my comments "offend" you.

Thank you. I perceive that be an attempt at making peace. I appreciate it.

I know that things you do offend me but yet you do them and take great joy in it and telling of those experiences.

To my recollection this is the first time I have heard about such, and still I do not have any idea what exactly I have done or said. I would gladly do whatever I can do in good conscience to make a mends for any offensive I have caused.

I was raised Baptist and I cannot swallow what I was taught by them as far as OSAS. If they would do a bit of research themselves they would see that really they don't believe that either. Their forefathers did not teach it the way they do.

I'm not really sure what this has to do with your other comments. Can you clarify?

As far as TCoG and Hattin goes, yes they say both so which was it? For a pastor, evangelist, teacher, etc. to stand in the pulpit under the anointing of the Lord and declare what the website says is hogwash. I will not believe that God blesses lies. TCoG says they are it and if anyone and everyone else would actually study to shew themselves approved unto God then they would see the same thing. It is HIGH TIME that TCOG take their own advice family & friends included. If your family or my family spills out lies, falsehoods, and false info then we should call them on it. They will still be our family and maybe we can help them see their error.

Honestly, I doubt there was any desire on your part to minister to TCOGers when you said "Never say research facts when referring to the organization that you were referring to. " I mean I may have fell off the turnip truck, but I learned a few things before I quit rolling.