Jude 2

I like the way the Northern Ohio COG Region operates. They put out a quarterly magazine with great uplifting and encouraging information. Then on top of that they list the stats for every church in their region. You can also find the stats on their website at http://www.norohcog.com. I like the full disclosure, nothing being done in secret.

With the information out there, people don't guess, pastors don't get asked as much, "how's your church doing", etc... .

Any opinions?

Zowie. I think you just choked half of the overseers on the Full Disclosure statement.

We did that for years in TN in the old WHIT (What's Happening In Tennessee) format.

They still do this in some state papers.

I know at one point in my early years it caused some competition between churches. I would hear it from nearby churches how bad they were smokin' us in Sunday School attendance and why we weren't doing better. It was a very uncomfortable topic of conversation for me.

Man you had my attention there for a minute...

I thought you were serious about this......
But alas, you were only talking about stats!!!! That is important to some but not all.
While it may be a motivational tool to some it is a total bummer to others.

Stats (where denoms are concerned) can sometimes have a negative effect. I have seen some really great ministries stop and go a different direction than what God ordained them to do because of this very thing.
So all of this has to be used with a degree of caution.

Having said that.....I can see some benefit....if the information is given in the proper manner.

And Full Disclosure????? YOu have got to be kidding!!!!

we have always had a state paper in TCOG since I have been a member. It has messages from different pastors and the regional leaders and also testimonies of such. I am starting a local church paper (nothing really detailed since we are a small church and my wife and I will be doing it) But I am hoping to send it to many people I know that need the Lord and those that I know that would love an encouraging word. Anyway may the Lord bless.

I knew if I titled the topic correctly people would at least give it a look! LOL!

Dr. Ron, I totally agree with what your saying. I just like the facts to be out there. Cuz if your ever offered a church, alot of S.O's will tell you it's a great church and doing real well. But then you get there and find 10 people with 6 ready to leave and no money. At least you know what your getting into.

DeWayne, I've heard those same statements. I just consider the source. But there's nothing wrong with some friendly competition. We all need to be challenged to do better. But it's not all about numbers either. We have to keep it in proper perspective.

I also like the way COG links their International HQ with all their State websites. And notice that every State has a website!

OMG> Stevenson....do mean to imply that a SO would give you a false impression (falsehood) about the condition and size of a church??? Perish the thought.....I can't imagine...of all the underhanded.........

Yep, welcome to the REAL world of denominationalism where in there is a heirerarchial structure.

I can truthfully say I never gave a BETTER description of a church than what it was in fact.....sometimes I tried to paint a more discouraging picture so that the person would be certain they were up to the task.

Frankly most small churches need to be disbanded rather than to die a slow death. This was certainly the belief of AJ Tomlinson. He recommended that they be disbanded if they showed they were not going to grow.

I agree with you Stevenson.....on several issues here, but I still think that each local congregation should seek God's direction and not be concerned with trying to sell a packaged product.....in the immortal words of Dr, Phil....for those who are trying to do that" How's that workin for ya"???

Dr. Ron wrote:I can truthfully say I never gave a BETTER description of a church than what it was in fact.....sometimes I tried to paint a more discouraging picture so that the person would be certain they were up to the task.

Frankly most small churches need to be disbanded rather than to die a slow death. This was certainly the belief of AJ Tomlinson. He recommended that they be disbanded if they showed they were not going to grow.

Ron, you and me both. I am "negotiating" (?) with someone right now who may be coming to help us out in our REUNION efforts, and I have attempted to pain the ugliest, most unattractive picture I can of the cost-of-living, lack of finances, difficulty of making the cultural adjustments, etc. and he is still planning to come. He will never be able to say "You tricked me!"

I am aware that several Overseers are watching our Reunion experience to see if it is a viable alternative to closing/disbanding small, struggling churches. We didn't invent the idea, but we may the only people doing it really openly and with video/audio/photo documentation in real time. So far, so good. We asked the Lord for 200 the first Sunday, and our count reflects just about that number despite several who got lost (went to another school with a similar name) and several who just didn't make it. We are expecting more people on the 13th!

Full disclosure on the local Sunday School board can be hilarious. We once had visitors at our church from the Holy Church of Christ. After church, one of the visitors asked me, "How do you get your people to give so much?" He had mistaken the $3862 on the Sunday School board for thousands rather than the actual $38.62. It was really funny at the time.

Pastor Gary, I am glad to see that you watched and paid attention to my example and learned from me

Seriously, I tried to do what you are doing in all the states I was given. I was only mildly successful .....but then that was a different day with a different mind set.

I applaud you and pray that you will not be castigated for your efforts. At least you are far enough away that those who do not want progress can say...."yeah, that's okay for Hawaii, but it wouldn't work here".

Dr. Ron wrote:Seriously, I tried to do what you are doing in all the states I was given. I was only mildly successful .....but then that was a different day with a different mind set.

As I said -- I know I am not the first to think of this or try it... and not even the first to succeed. Someone else pointed out that several churches in Pennsylvania did this several years ago. I think it may be the wave of the future for small, struggling churches in close proximity.

Dr. Ron wrote:I applaud you and pray that you will not be castigated for your efforts. At least you are far enough away that those who do not want progress can say...."yeah, that's okay for Hawaii, but it wouldn't work here".

My immediate superior in the big machine is enthusiastic in his support, and even considered doing the same thing years ago, but it didn't seem to be God's timing then. Hawaii may be the HARDEST place to make it work -- the four congregations we are uniting in worship could hardly be more different in style, operation and sociology, and yet they are loving it so far.

If you want to choke, look at the stats for Maumee, Ohio's Cathedral of Praise. They bring in about $100,000.00 a month in just tithes! And they run around 1,500 in Morning Worship. I've been there, it's a beautiful church.

stevenson wrote:If you want to choke, look at the stats for Maumee, Ohio's Cathedral of Praise. They bring in about $100,000.00 a month in just tithes! And they run around 1,500 in Morning Worship. I've been there, it's a beautiful church.

That's about $70/person per month tithes. I would expect it to be even higher.