Rudy on immigration

[Full Quiver]

WALLACE: Mayor, we have only a few minutes left, and I want to talk to you about one last issue, which is immigration.

GIULIANI: Right.

WALLACE: You have a comprehensive plan that calls for building a fence, both a physical fence and a high-tech fence, to secure the border.

You also talk about immediately deporting any illegals who commit crimes, but that's still going to leave, by some estimates, 10 million people here. What would you do with them?

GIULIANI: What you would do is you would secure the border. You'd have the fence. The fence would stop people from coming in.

You'd set up a rule that to come into the United States, you have to identify yourself, which, after all, is no different than the rule in just about any other country.

You'd have a tamper-proof I.D. card. You'd get that working. And once it was working, what you would do is you'd deport the people who are criminals. You'd let the other people come forward who are here, who want to get fingerprinted, photographed, checked out, put on the rolls, paying taxes.

The people who didn't come forward you would focus on, and you would throw them out of the country. And you probably would also find that a number of those people that won't come forward will also leave.

WALLACE: But I want to...

GIULIANI: So your number -- well, let me just finish that, Chris. So your number -- what you've got to do with the, OK, 10 million here, 12 million here, is you've got to get that number down to a number that is deportable, that fits within a system that will deport them.

At multiple millions like that, it's numbers that the government can't deal with. So if you get rid of the criminals...

WALLACE: But what will you do -- but what will you do with the ones -- let's say 8 million, 6 million, whatever -- who haven't broken the law, who are willing to pay taxes, willing to pay a fine? What do you do with them?

GIULIANI: You let them sign up. You let them get fingerprinted, photographed. You assure yourself that they're safe, decent people, that they're working, that they're now working on the rolls. You'll get the tax revenues from them. They will be paying their fair share.

And in essence, you create a self-selection process among those people. But you'll be doing it with the borders secure, with the borders now in a situation where more people can't come in.

If you try to do that before you secure the borders, your 12 million might become 16 million or 18 million.

WALLACE: But, Mayor, that sure sounds like amnesty for that self-selected group of people.

GIULIANI: Not at all. If they ever wanted to become citizens, they would have to get on the back of the line. They couldn't get ahead of anyone else. They would have to pay fines.

And then at the end of the road, anyone on any of these lists would have to be able to read English, write English, speak English. There would be substantial things that had to be done. Amnesty is being free and clear of all penalties of any kind.

WALLACE: But you wouldn't make them leave the country, would you?

GIULIANI: They'd have to pay a penalty.

WALLACE: But you wouldn't make them leave the...

GIULIANI: No. The way I would do it is the -- the way I would do it is the way I just suggested. I think that's the only way. In terms of the numbers you're talking about, and the ability of the federal government to actually get it done, that would really be the best way to get it done.

But critical to all of this, Chris, is you have got to secure the borders first. None of this can work if you don't secure the borders, because any kind of solution that you have for the people that are here, no matter how rational it is, would end up just having the problem run away from you if you don't secure the borders first.

WALLACE: Mayor Giuliani, we're going to have to leave it there. We want to thank you so much for coming off the trail and talking with us today. And safe travels, sir.

GIULIANI: Thank you, Chris. Thank you very much.