Jude 2

Just read an article from Christianity Today talking about the rise of churches expelling members and even calling the police when they come back. Interesting read:

http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ctliv ... cipli.html

I suppose when they hand you over to Satan they don't want you to ever come back. Sounds more like church purges than church discipline.

crispfinagin wrote:I suppose when they hand you over to Satan they don't want you to ever come back.

Hey, it's Biblical!

I Corinthians 5:5 wrote:To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

And severely needed. I think we've lost much because we only use the parts that we like.

Ignoring the pink elephant in the living room.

Some would say that the pink elephant would be the harsh controlling attitude evidenced by the pastor towards their congregations. Throwing an old lady out of the church for questioning the pastor seems more than a little over the top for me, and if such a thing is seen as perfectly acceptable I am glad that most people do not go to church (wouldn't want them to confuse Jesus with the jerks who claim to follow him) and very glad movements like the emerging churches are going away from the established control model of leadership.

crispfinagin wrote:Some would say that the pink elephant would be the harsh controlling attitude evidenced by the pastor towards their congregations. Throwing an old lady out of the church for questioning the pastor seems more than a little over the top for me, and if such a thing is seen as perfectly acceptable I am glad that most people do not go to church (wouldn't want them to confuse Jesus with the jerks who claim to follow him) and very glad movements like the emerging churches are going away from the established control model of leadership.

I'm not referring to one simple question.. it's about an attitude of how and whom leads the church. Remember authority? Anything can be asked and inquired about in the correct spirit. It's the gossip and personal destruction that is so horrific when traditional religion isn't upheld.

The main question needs to be asked of every "church" group... Are you a CLUB where it's job is to sustain the loyal members to the end (us 4 and no more) or are you a method of reaching the lost and dying world? Do we allow one or two "holy members" derail the latter if chosen?

First.. Cruise or Battle ship? Then.. Who steers it.. ?

I'm not referring to one simple question.. it's about an attitude of how and whom leads the church. Remember authority?

This is simple. Christ is the head of the church. He is the authority.

Anything can be asked and inquired about in the correct spirit. It's the gossip and personal destruction that is so horrific when traditional religion isn't upheld.

The problem with the story is that it didn't go to much into the whole background of the situation. If the woman's "sin" was questioning the pastor, then he is an abusive shepherd. You couldn't really tell if there was destructive gossip involved and personal attacking which is a terrible thing to tolerate. I know from experience.

The main question needs to be asked of every "church" group... Are you a CLUB where it's job is to sustain the loyal members to the end (us 4 and no more) or are you a method of reaching the lost and dying world? Do we allow one or two "holy members" derail the latter if chosen?

Abusive and controlling leaders only foster the club mentality of loyalty above all.

First.. Cruise or Battle ship? Then.. Who steers it.. ?

I would not use the metaphor myself, but I would say there's a kingdom and Christ is the king. I would say that we are invited to join in the dance of the Trinity and God is leading. I would say true servants as leaders and submission to the gifting of God and humility towards all.

I'm not referring to one simple question.. it's about an attitude of how and whom leads the church. Remember authority?

crispfinagin wrote:This is simple. Christ is the head of the church. He is the authority.

Absolutely correct.. but whom comes next? Do positions exist under that Authority?

First.. Cruise or Battle ship? Then.. Who steers it.. ?

crispfinagin wrote:I would not use the metaphor myself, but I would say there's a kingdom and Christ is the king. I would say that we are invited to join in the dance of the Trinity and God is leading. I would say true servants as leaders and submission to the gifting of God and humility towards all.

The original analogy is spot on. A church group must decide whether they want to be in either boat. On the cruise ship the people compete for games, position, political power, money threats used to steer the boat, ministry vs non ministry, old vs young, clicks form and rare few are reached outside. The battle ship aligns under authority and knows the real enemy, focuses all resources AND they are actively ministering, defending and fighting outside the comforts of home base.

Again being quick with words.. I think we are both speaking from different experiences. But I do think the root of all this revolves around the above issues.