Jude 2

[confession]
After attending our regional winter, family camp/retreat, and lots of prayer I have come to a conclusion that I have been concentrating entirely too much time trying to justify my feelings and prove my worth to others.
[/confession]

a conscious choice to focus more on Christ and our relationship as been made. I hope I don't upset folks, or disappoint them, but as you all probably have complete understanding of, and I "knew", but didn't really comprehend is that you can't please everyone.

This theophany came to me at the end of the retreat, and is something I will continue to pray about and continue in my walk with Adoni. For me, this is a difficult challenge, since I am a "learner" and a teacher. many times people may assume that I am trying to prove myself in Biblical archaeology, history, interpretation, epigraphy, paleography and other areas - when in fact, when I discuss, or teach or converse about these things, it is purely from a personal exuberance and desire about the subject matter and wanting other people to know about these things that have helped me in my relationship with God.

With that said, I will make every effort to be sure to know exactly where my heart and soul is when posting, and when communicating and working with people IRL. I am done trying to show myself as "worthy of ordination". I am not, in and of myself. only because of Christ, and God's calling. so whether or not COGOP "ordains" me, is now a non-issue. I am not leaving.

This (Organization) is where God has lead me, and I believe fully that I am obedient.

That probably didn't make much sense, but I needed to express it. thank you for your time.

Good stuff, Rambo. Thanks for sharing your heart.

RamboPreacher wrote:many times people may assume that I am trying to prove myself in Biblical archaeology, history, interpretation, epigraphy, paleography and other areas - when in fact, when I discuss, or teach or converse about these things, it is purely from a personal exuberance and desire about the subject matter and wanting other people to know about these things that have helped me in my relationship with God.

I think all of us who stand up front have experienced something similar: we have interests and passions, and things that push our buttons. That will inevitably come across in our preaching/teaching, even if it is something others will hear and say "so what??" with a huge yawn.

Many times I have read back over my sermon notes and deleted a huge section, stuff I thought was just an amazing insight, when I realized that nobody else would care or be blessed by it.

Pastor Gary wrote:

RamboPreacher wrote:many times people may assume that I am trying to prove myself in Biblical archaeology, history, interpretation, epigraphy, paleography and other areas - when in fact, when I discuss, or teach or converse about these things, it is purely from a personal exuberance and desire about the subject matter and wanting other people to know about these things that have helped me in my relationship with God.

I think all of us who stand up front have experienced something similar: we have interests and passions, and things that push our buttons. That will inevitably come across in our preaching/teaching, even if it is something others will hear and say "so what??" with a huge yawn.

Many times I have read back over my sermon notes and deleted a huge section, stuff I thought was just an amazing insight, when I realized that nobody else would care or be blessed by it.

I guess because of the nature of th information, (I can't think of any other reason) some may think that I was "showing off", or trying to "prove myself" because of my particular circumstances. and as I confessed, I may have been at times, but no more. accept me or not, I am here to stay, (which to me is the "bottom line") folks will just have to at least get used to me, or ignore me.

at least I am allowed a Sunday School class to teach. honestly, if I didn't have that outlet, I am not sure how I would be able to quench the fire in my bones or rather, more accurately, to allow it to burn elsewhere without turning into a supernova myself.

RamboPreacher wrote:at least I am allowed a Sunday School class to teach. honestly, if I didn't have that outlet, I am not sure how I would be able to quench the fire in my bones or rather, more accurately, to allow it to burn elsewhere without turning into a supernova myself.

I had a couple (way back) who had a passion for teaching. They didn't fit well in our existing Christian Ed/SS program, so I asked them to either find or write and teach a new believers basics class that would give unchurched new followers of Jesus a balanced 101 survey of what they should know. Worked great for them and for us.

They left the last church they were at because they got called on the carpet for having "an unauthorized home Bible Study." What on earth is an AUTHORIZED home Bible Study??? If your neighbor asks you to teach them some of what you know about the Lord, are you supposed to get permission first??

Hey PG, I'd love to have some info on what they are doing with that, we are looking towards stepping into a Christianity 101 thing here at New Life as well, and are looking for ideas.

I agree with you, we as pastors need to support the work people are called to, not try to control it. If there is a problem, then deal with the problem, but give some room for people to step out and serve, that is what we WANT them to do!

Pastor Bill wrote:Hey PG, I'd love to have some info on what they are doing with that, we are looking towards stepping into a Christianity 101 thing here at New Life as well, and are looking for ideas.

I agree with you, we as pastors need to support the work people are called to, not try to control it. If there is a problem, then deal with the problem, but give some room for people to step out and serve, that is what we WANT them to do!

Releasing vs: delegating

Pastor Gary wrote: If your neighbor asks you to teach them some of what you know about the Lord, are you supposed to get permission first??

No. As a pastor, though, wouldn't it make you nervous/curious to have people soliciting your members for in-home Bible studies (or gripe sessions) without your participation or knowledge?

RamboPreacher wrote:

Pastor Gary wrote:

RamboPreacher wrote:many times people may assume that I am trying to prove myself in Biblical archaeology, history, interpretation, epigraphy, paleography and other areas - when in fact, when I discuss, or teach or converse about these things, it is purely from a personal exuberance and desire about the subject matter and wanting other people to know about these things that have helped me in my relationship with God.

I think all of us who stand up front have experienced something similar: we have interests and passions, and things that push our buttons. That will inevitably come across in our preaching/teaching, even if it is something others will hear and say "so what??" with a huge yawn.

Many times I have read back over my sermon notes and deleted a huge section, stuff I thought was just an amazing insight, when I realized that nobody else would care or be blessed by it.

I guess because of the nature of th information, (I can't think of any other reason) some may think that I was "showing off", or trying to "prove myself" because of my particular circumstances. and as I confessed, I may have been at times, but no more. accept me or not, I am here to stay, (which to me is the "bottom line") folks will just have to at least get used to me, or ignore me.

at least I am allowed a Sunday School class to teach. honestly, if I didn't have that outlet, I am not sure how I would be able to quench the fire in my bones or rather, more accurately, to allow it to burn elsewhere without turning into a supernova myself.

RamboPreacher, You don't need a card, certificate, or license from anyone to preach the Gospel. Paul didn't meet the elders in Jerusalem for quite sometime.

I appreciate your willingness to stay....and I don't know your situation....but DO NOT let an organization prevent you from fulfilling a call on your life.

My first license was from the United Christian Church and Ministerial Association in Cleveland, TN. The crazy thing is....that two Bishops in the COGOP were the ones who signed my application for the license.

So I wasn't quite qualified for the cogop at the time....but they recommended me to another group. LOL...I didn't come back for 10 years! But I missed the bigger picture. The only reason that I would need a license was to pastor a cogop owned church. But I didn't need one at all to preach and teach the word.

And it don't matter if State HQ or General HQ ever recognizes your ministry....it's the people that you lead to Christ that know your ministry and it's those people that will recognize and accept your calling. It's the people that make up a local congregation that are "the Church!"

DeWayneTN wrote:

Pastor Gary wrote: If your neighbor asks you to teach them some of what you know about the Lord, are you supposed to get permission first??

No. As a pastor, though, wouldn't it make you nervous/curious to have people soliciting your members for in-home Bible studies (or gripe sessions) without your participation or knowledge?

Not if they are trusted members of the church family, and if they are not then you have a bigger issue to deal with.

DeWayneTN wrote:

Pastor Gary wrote: If your neighbor asks you to teach them some of what you know about the Lord, are you supposed to get permission first??

No. As a pastor, though, wouldn't it make you nervous/curious to have people soliciting your members for in-home Bible studies (or gripe sessions) without your participation or knowledge?

That wasn't the situation at all: they had friends and neighbors who didn't attend church anywhere, and in casual conversation, asked them to explain some things. They had the neighbors over, made a pot of coffee and informally taught them what they asked about.

But, as to your question: "wouldn't it make you nervous/curious to have people soliciting your members for in-home Bible studies (or gripe sessions) without your participation or knowledge?"

Honestly? Not much, no. Maybe I am too trusting, or maybe the whole concept of gatherings being gripe sessions is just so far removed from my reality that I can't comprehend it. But, no, people from my church getting together for any reason at all outside the weekly gatherings is encouraged and not feared.

Yeah, I knew you were talking about them ministering to neighbors but I just bounced the question somewhere else.

As far as the home groups, though. If they didn't have the consideration to inform you and started a group targeting other members for whatever purposes (I'm not talking about going out to eat), I think that as the pastor/shepherd it would at least spark my curiosity.

If the first inclination is griping when church members gather, there are bigger issues than who's leading bible study!

I think the mistrust on the part of members is often a reaction to the mistrust given to them. If a Pastor is controlling and micromanages everything, no one wants to serve under them, just as no one wants to work under that (been there done that, still deal with it at times).

But when an attitude of freedom, cooperation, and support is the basis of your church, people are able to serve and seek without all the fussing. Pastors can focus on mentoring leaders and providing the broader vision rather than dictating specific details.

DeWayneTN wrote:YIf they didn't have the consideration to inform you and started a group targeting other members for whatever purposes (I'm not talking about going out to eat), I think that as the pastor/shepherd it would at least spark my curiosity.

I had a service in which I had the entire congregation stand and raise their right hands, after which I declared that they were ALL called, commissioned, chosen, anointed, appointed, empowered, and whatever other terms they needed to hear, to go out and be Jesus with skin on to their world -- they can launch outreaches and "ministries" at will, without further knowledge or "permission" from me or any boards or committees... further, I told them that if they lead somebody to saving faith in Jesus, they can take them down to the beach and baptize them, ASAP, themselves.

PastorDaniel wrote:

RamboPreacher wrote:

Pastor Gary wrote:

RamboPreacher wrote:many times people may assume that I am trying to prove myself in Biblical archaeology, history, interpretation, epigraphy, paleography and other areas - when in fact, when I discuss, or teach or converse about these things, it is purely from a personal exuberance and desire about the subject matter and wanting other people to know about these things that have helped me in my relationship with God.

I think all of us who stand up front have experienced something similar: we have interests and passions, and things that push our buttons. That will inevitably come across in our preaching/teaching, even if it is something others will hear and say "so what??" with a huge yawn.

Many times I have read back over my sermon notes and deleted a huge section, stuff I thought was just an amazing insight, when I realized that nobody else would care or be blessed by it.

I guess because of the nature of th information, (I can't think of any other reason) some may think that I was "showing off", or trying to "prove myself" because of my particular circumstances. and as I confessed, I may have been at times, but no more. accept me or not, I am here to stay, (which to me is the "bottom line") folks will just have to at least get used to me, or ignore me.

at least I am allowed a Sunday School class to teach. honestly, if I didn't have that outlet, I am not sure how I would be able to quench the fire in my bones or rather, more accurately, to allow it to burn elsewhere without turning into a supernova myself.

RamboPreacher, You don't need a card, certificate, or license from anyone to preach the Gospel. Paul didn't meet the elders in Jerusalem for quite sometime.

Thanks. Believe you, me, I know this. It is unfortunate that others don't. I would like to teach/preach more, but what I can do, I am doing.

I appreciate your willingness to stay....and I don't know your situation....but DO NOT let an organization prevent you from fulfilling a call on your life.

I had been praying about this for the last year or so and especially the last few months. My perception was that I was being kept from fulfilling my call. but part of the theophany I realized was what it was that I was being called to, and more specifically, what the steps that I believe God has been leading and directing me.

You see, I believe that I am fulfilling the call God has placed in my heart, buy being at the local church I am in, and being available for pulpit time, and to teach the Sunday School Class I am leading.

I am not called to be "ordained". I am ordained. However, I do know that I will be ordained in the COGOP. Just because I have felt that I was "worthy" (pride, that had to be repented of) of ordination, did not mean that I should be church-ordained, at least not yet. and at this point it doesn't make a difference to me, since I don't feel limited.

I don't feel that I am being (locally) supported, either. But that is a non-issue. I only require that God (and it's nice that my family supports me too ) be supportive of me. anything else is a desire to please everyone, as mentioned previously. and I will not be pleasing everyone; just can't happen. so my focus is on God, our relationship and the calling He has given me ("ordination", being besides the point, as you mention).

...
And it don't matter if State HQ or General HQ ever recognizes your ministry....it's the people that you lead to Christ that know your ministry and it's those people that will recognize and accept your calling. It's the people that make up a local congregation that are "the Church!"

yup. agreed. and "my" "church" is currently my Sunday School class... they not only do the homework I assign, they ask for more. It's awesome to see God working and to see them soaking it up like sponges. and not only that, but to hear testimonies of them applying it in their life and relationships outside the church!

One of the my students that is particularly able, and blessed to grasp the material, has even begun a Bible study at her work, and will be using my handouts and her notes to lead that Bible Study. Nothing like the classes depth, but having cursory reviews and Biblical study that is "inspired" because she attended my class is an awesome feeling.

Another student tells me of times she has to deal with a particular atheist (ex-Christian), and how she uses what she learns in refuting their anti-Christian rhetoric; and not just by quoting scripture, or saying "because my pastor told me so", but using what was learned and applying it.

Another student has had to change churches (something closer, they live 2 cities away). but has requested that I continue sending the materials and the CD's. (I didn't originally record my lessons, but it was requested, so I got out my digital voice recorder, for just such the occasion - turns out that occasion is now every class.)

limited in my calling? nope. lacking opportunity? a bit, maybe, but I do not equate these. Personal obedience, in my opinion, is the greater issue. no matter what circumstances are tossed at me.