Okay! Sitting in Class and I am bored, answer this

KBevangelist · Postby **KBevangelist** » March 13th, 2008, 2:15 pm

Was Mary a Surrogate or biological mother of Jesus?

That is one of my questions from my boring instructor :twisted:

KB

Full Quiver · Postby **Full Quiver** » March 13th, 2008, 2:20 pm

biological unless your instructor thinks God the Father was a sexual

of course if she were a surrogate then Jesus was not a man

if class is too boring then jump up, run towards the bathroom, come back several minutes later, and say....

I need to go home; the bathroom was 2 steps too far. :shock:

Poimen · Postby **Poimen** » March 13th, 2008, 2:31 pm

KBevangelist wrote:Was Mary a Surrogate or biological mother of Jesus?

That is one of my questions from my boring instructor

KB

Both.

Pastor Bill · Postby **Pastor Bill** » March 13th, 2008, 4:42 pm

Well if she was the "Mother" of Chris, then I think that would have to be biological, but it probably also depends on how you define that, and honestly would probably have to be defined in terms completely different than anything else, since it is a completely unique situation that could not honestly be grouped with any other.

Ilovebigcats · Postby **Ilovebigcats** » March 13th, 2008, 5:12 pm

Pastor Bill wrote:Well if she was the "Mother" of Chris,

Lord have mercy! His head can't get any bigger!!!! :shock:

Full Quiver · Postby **Full Quiver** » March 13th, 2008, 5:14 pm

how was she a surragote? She carried her own child, raised him, etc.

RamboPreacher · Postby **RamboPreacher** » March 13th, 2008, 5:19 pm

KBevangelist · Postby **KBevangelist** » March 13th, 2008, 6:57 pm

Full Quiver wrote:how was she a surragote? She carried her own child, raised him, etc.

Well it got interesting finally. My instructor made some very valid points.

1. Think about a surrogate - they carry the egg and sperm of someone else. There DNA is not attached to that child.

2. Now think spiritual. Jesus was fully God, born in the flesh. God could not be touched or be born in sin. Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit. Her DNA was not Christ. Joseph and Mary were both born in sin and the adamic nature. Christ could have never been born with the adamic nature or he would have sinned.

Interesting stuff. I stopped being bored. Yall should be proud :roll:

KB

Gerald Creasy · Postby **Gerald Creasy** » March 13th, 2008, 8:27 pm

KBevangelist wrote:
Full Quiver wrote:how was she a surragote? She carried her own child, raised him, etc.

Well it got interesting finally. My instructor made some very valid points.

1. Think about a surrogate - they carry the egg and sperm of someone else. There DNA is not attached to that child.

2. Now think spiritual. Jesus was fully God, born in the flesh. God could not be touched or be born in sin. Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit. Her DNA was not Christ. Joseph and Mary were both born in sin and the adamic nature. Christ could have never been born with the adamic nature or he would have sinned.

Interesting stuff. I stopped being bored. Yall should be proud

KB

I'd make some very valid objections. Loudly.

Jesus was not Fully god, born in the flesh. He was fully God AND fully human. Isnt this called the Hypostatic Union?

This seems dangerously close to Gnosticism, that rejects that God became a man.

How could Jesus be a descendant of David if he carried nothing from the Mother?

scooter · Postby **scooter** » March 14th, 2008, 4:19 am

Gerald Creasy wrote:
I'd make some very valid objections. Loudly.

Jesus was not Fully god, born in the flesh. He was fully God AND fully human. Isnt this called the Hypostatic Union?

This seems dangerously close to Gnosticism, that rejects that God became a man.

How could Jesus be a descendant of David if he carried nothing from the Mother?

Response: This subject could be interesting on so many different levels.

Is it an assumption that we are born sinners ie "The Adamic nature"?

Or are we just born under the cursed sin culture which Adam introduced?

I struggle with the terminology "In the likeness of sinful flesh". If he did have Mary's "DNA" wasn't Mary herself a result of a father?

Gerald brings up some great points.

PastorDaniel · Postby **PastorDaniel** » March 14th, 2008, 4:19 am

KBevangelist wrote:
Full Quiver wrote:how was she a surragote? She carried her own child, raised him, etc.

Well it got interesting finally. My instructor made some very valid points.

1. Think about a surrogate - they carry the egg and sperm of someone else. There DNA is not attached to that child.

2. Now think spiritual. Jesus was fully God, born in the flesh. God could not be touched or be born in sin. Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit. Her DNA was not Christ. Joseph and Mary were both born in sin and the adamic nature. Christ could have never been born with the adamic nature or he would have sinned.

Interesting stuff. I stopped being bored. Yall should be proud

KB

What about the following passage of scripture and the many others that state matter of factly that Jesus would be from the "seed" of David. For those of you that might not know..."seed" would be the same as "sperm."

John 7:42 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?

We believe that Jesus was fully Man and fully God. The God part is what resisted sin.

When you deny the humanity of Jesus...you come too close to the "Divine Flesh" doctrine which circulated in the Oneness movement for a while and many still believe it. However...it was denounced by the UPC.

We could discuss this in a Doctrine thread if you'd like...it get's deep! :shock:

scooter · Postby **scooter** » March 14th, 2008, 4:31 am

So then would it not stand to reason that humanity, seed of David, is not sinful until we sin?

macgulley · Postby **macgulley** » March 14th, 2008, 4:38 am

PastorDaniel wrote:
The God part is what resisted sin.

Can you elaborate on this?

Pastor Bill · Postby **Pastor Bill** » March 14th, 2008, 6:14 am

Ilovebigcats wrote:
Pastor Bill wrote:Well if she was the "Mother" of Chris,

Lord have mercy! His head can't get any bigger!!!!

SORRY, mistyped! :oops:

Pastor Bill · Postby **Pastor Bill** » March 14th, 2008, 6:18 am

PastorDaniel wrote:What about the following passage of scripture and the many others that state matter of factly that Jesus would be from the "seed" of David. For those of you that might not know..."seed" would be the same as "sperm."

Not exactly, it would equate with sperm or egg, in that it was used to describe the "Seed" of the woman in the Garden of Eden, which would seem to suggest that yes Mary was the biological mother, but again, this is such an unique situation, I don't know if it's a good idea just to lump it in with others with a label.

Jude 2