what ever happened to
Posted: March 25th, 2008, 12:54 am
young ministers that would pay thier dues untill it was their time to move up the ladder?
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Posted: March 25th, 2008, 2:42 am
What dues and what ladder?
Posted: March 25th, 2008, 4:28 am
What dues and what ladder?
I think the dues are tithes, and the ladder's still at Jacob's house. I think he changed his name, though.
Re: what ever happened to
Posted: March 25th, 2008, 4:56 am
dawgs10 wrote:young ministers that would pay thier dues untill it was their time to move up the ladder?
Is this a way of saying:
Why does that upstart have a church with 200 when I've worked for thirty years and can barely draw 20!
????
Re: what ever happened to
Posted: March 25th, 2008, 5:15 am
Gerald Creasy wrote:dawgs10 wrote:young ministers that would pay thier dues untill it was their time to move up the ladder?
Is this a way of saying:
Why does that upstart have a church with 200 when I've worked for thirty years and can barely draw 20!
????
Exactly. I would hope we are getting out of that terrible mentality of you have had to have X amount of years experience before you are allowed to do X ministry. Garbage. There have been a couple of instances in the state of TN where that system was bucked and it was a wonderful decision. I don't agree with sending someone in unprepared, but at the same time, "paying dues" is just of way man trying to deem you worthy of what God may be calling you to do.
Re: what ever happened to
Posted: March 25th, 2008, 6:39 am
dawgs10 wrote:young ministers that would pay thier dues untill it was their time to move up the ladder?
I've been on that ladder.
I'm thankful to be on the ground again.Posted: March 25th, 2008, 7:20 am
"paying dues" isn't about putting someone through the grunt work, it's about showing dedication.
I served in any way I could as a young minister, gained my pastor's confidence and ended up basically serving as Associate Pastor by the time I started working on getting my license (although I never officially had that title, we were a small church and no one was really concerned with titles, myself included)
Experience counts, and there are many who I saw starting on getting their license at the same time as me who were older than I am, but you could tell they were clueless of what they were getting into.
This isn't about making it hard on young workers, or some type of adolescent initiation, but about taking the time to be mentored and gain experience. This does not take a long time, but is more about building the relationships and trust that will serve you well for years to come.
I served in any way I could as a young minister, gained my pastor's confidence and ended up basically serving as Associate Pastor by the time I started working on getting my license (although I never officially had that title, we were a small church and no one was really concerned with titles, myself included)
Experience counts, and there are many who I saw starting on getting their license at the same time as me who were older than I am, but you could tell they were clueless of what they were getting into.
This isn't about making it hard on young workers, or some type of adolescent initiation, but about taking the time to be mentored and gain experience. This does not take a long time, but is more about building the relationships and trust that will serve you well for years to come.
Posted: March 25th, 2008, 8:46 am
Pastor Bill wrote:"paying dues" isn't about putting someone through the grunt work, it's about showing dedication.
I served in any way I could as a young minister, gained my pastor's confidence and ended up basically serving as Associate Pastor by the time I started working on getting my license (although I never officially had that title, we were a small church and no one was really concerned with titles, myself included)
Experience counts, and there are many who I saw starting on getting their license at the same time as me who were older than I am, but you could tell they were clueless of what they were getting into.
This isn't about making it hard on young workers, or some type of adolescent initiation, but about taking the time to be mentored and gain experience. This does not take a long time, but is more about building the relationships and trust that will serve you well for years to come.
pastor bill gets it!!!! ding, ding, ding, you get the prize. its not about holding people back. its about being dedicated to a work or movement or church. what ever you want to call it. most of all its about knowing who you are and what you believe. waiting for a time that is right and moving at Gods pace, not our on. we can learn from the generation that came before us. they are not always wrong. by the way, i have only had my ministers license for a short while and i am below the age of 35. i worked as hard as a care group leader as i do as a youth minister. (because i believe in the church that i am apart of and its not about me.) i dont recieve pay from the church and i work a full time job. Love ever minute of it.
Re: what ever happened to
Posted: March 25th, 2008, 9:10 am
MrDanger wrote:Gerald Creasy wrote:dawgs10 wrote:young ministers that would pay thier dues untill it was their time to move up the ladder?
Is this a way of saying:
Why does that upstart have a church with 200 when I've worked for thirty years and can barely draw 20!
????
Exactly. I would hope we are getting out of that terrible mentality of you have had to have X amount of years experience before you are allowed to do X ministry. Garbage. There have been a couple of instances in the state of TN where that system was bucked and it was a wonderful decision. I don't agree with sending someone in unprepared, but at the same time, "paying dues" is just of way man trying to deem you worthy of what God may be calling you to do.
Mr Danger, I couldn't agree more. To me it is not about earning my place, nor living up to someones elses lists that say's I am now qualified. Surely we have seen the fruitlessness of that approach and the carnage left behind.
Instead of someone paying dues, why not simlpy see if they truly have a servants heart. After all that to me is the key to any successful pastoral leadership. Not mans knowledge, nor education ( though I am for both), not pulpit ability, not an expert banker nor realestate broker, nor a great manager but a servants heart. John 10
Re: what ever happened to
Posted: March 25th, 2008, 9:23 am
paul wrote:MrDanger wrote:Gerald Creasy wrote:dawgs10 wrote:young ministers that would pay thier dues untill it was their time to move up the ladder?
Is this a way of saying:
Why does that upstart have a church with 200 when I've worked for thirty years and can barely draw 20!
????
Exactly. I would hope we are getting out of that terrible mentality of you have had to have X amount of years experience before you are allowed to do X ministry. Garbage. There have been a couple of instances in the state of TN where that system was bucked and it was a wonderful decision. I don't agree with sending someone in unprepared, but at the same time, "paying dues" is just of way man trying to deem you worthy of what God may be calling you to do.
Mr Danger, I couldn't agree more. To me it is not about earning my place, nor living up to someones elses lists that say's I am now qualified. Surely we have seen the fruitlessness of that approach and the carnage left behind.
Instead of someone paying dues, why not simlpy see if they truly have a servants heart. After all that to me is the key to any successful pastoral leadership. Not mans knowledge, nor education ( though I am for both), not pulpit ability, not an expert banker nor realestate broker, nor a great manager but a servants heart. John 10
if someone has a servants heart it will shine threw and what they do will not be about them. it will be about those around them.
Posted: March 25th, 2008, 10:03 am
Paul I agree on this, and that's alot of why this time is needed, if you see this, then you want to put time in mentoring and assisting (which will NOT feel like you are being put down or held down) and if you don't see that servant's heart, then you know the person is not really ready for ministry. It's about those over you seeing this and having confidence, or not seeing it, and having reservations. I know that isn't always how it's handled, but it is how it should be IMHO.
Re: what ever happened to
Posted: March 25th, 2008, 1:32 pm
paul wrote:Instead of someone paying dues, why not simlpy see if they truly have a servants heart.
Excellent!!!! And unfortunately most people don't get what true servant leadership is.
Re: what ever happened to
Posted: March 25th, 2008, 2:02 pm
yup.MrDanger wrote:paul wrote:Instead of someone paying dues, why not simlpy see if they truly have a servants heart.
Excellent!!!! And unfortunately most people don't get what true servant leadership is.
I am done paying dues. i am all dueseded out. I am simply going to serve in whatever capacity I am able.
God's will be done.Paying dues
Posted: March 25th, 2008, 4:01 pm
If this is in response to a comment I made elsewhere in which I used the term "pay their dues" -- please allow me to clarify:
If you are a young man or woman called to serve God in any kind of ministry, you will be hard pressed to find a bigger bunch of cheerleaders than some of the pastors here on Jude2. People like Raymond Pruitt, Ron Hamm, Paul Roberts, E.C. McKinley (and I hope to be included in that list) and others are actively seeking out emerging leaders and trying to lift them up and push them to the forefront. Sometimes, however, there seems t be a disconnect between what I hear and what I observe.
A personal example: a young man at my church... filled with potential... passionate about the Lord, vocal in his witness, asking to be used and mentored. Mentoring, in my view, includes more than formal education -- it also means walking alongside, and expecting the mentee to walk alongside the mentor, learning by example, and learning by doing.
When I would be called to the hospital to visit someone, the young man always had an excuse, or was "tied up." When he asked to be allowed to minister, I encouraged him to launch a men's group, which he did, and he held a total of maybe 4 meetings before giving up. When we had projects involving plain old grunt work, he was nowhere to be found.
He wanted, actually, to be up front, in the spotlight, addressing the entire church (which I allowed him to do, too) where he would receive the public acclaim and validation he sought.
Fast forward: Another young man in whom I see great potential does a lot of behind-the-scenes serving, never asks to be thanked or placed in the spotlight, and has the potential to lead a great church.
Another one, a female, who doesn't meet any of the "normal" criteria the world seeks in a leader... not much education, not too physically attractive, not polished or smooth, but smart, quick, good, and with great potential. When we refinished the floors for the school in which we meet, she was there with a mop.
Of those three, who will be the leader(s) and who will not? How should I, as their senior leader, help them in their development?
If you are a young man or woman called to serve God in any kind of ministry, you will be hard pressed to find a bigger bunch of cheerleaders than some of the pastors here on Jude2. People like Raymond Pruitt, Ron Hamm, Paul Roberts, E.C. McKinley (and I hope to be included in that list) and others are actively seeking out emerging leaders and trying to lift them up and push them to the forefront. Sometimes, however, there seems t be a disconnect between what I hear and what I observe.
A personal example: a young man at my church... filled with potential... passionate about the Lord, vocal in his witness, asking to be used and mentored. Mentoring, in my view, includes more than formal education -- it also means walking alongside, and expecting the mentee to walk alongside the mentor, learning by example, and learning by doing.
When I would be called to the hospital to visit someone, the young man always had an excuse, or was "tied up." When he asked to be allowed to minister, I encouraged him to launch a men's group, which he did, and he held a total of maybe 4 meetings before giving up. When we had projects involving plain old grunt work, he was nowhere to be found.
He wanted, actually, to be up front, in the spotlight, addressing the entire church (which I allowed him to do, too) where he would receive the public acclaim and validation he sought.
Fast forward: Another young man in whom I see great potential does a lot of behind-the-scenes serving, never asks to be thanked or placed in the spotlight, and has the potential to lead a great church.
Another one, a female, who doesn't meet any of the "normal" criteria the world seeks in a leader... not much education, not too physically attractive, not polished or smooth, but smart, quick, good, and with great potential. When we refinished the floors for the school in which we meet, she was there with a mop.
Of those three, who will be the leader(s) and who will not? How should I, as their senior leader, help them in their development?
Re: Paying dues
Posted: March 25th, 2008, 4:16 pm
Pastor Gary wrote:Fast forward: Another young man in whom I see great potential does a lot of behind-the-scenes serving, never asks to be thanked or placed in the spotlight, and has the potential to lead a great church.
Another one, a female, who doesn't meet any of the "normal" criteria the world seeks in a leader... not much education, not too physically attractive, not polished or smooth, but smart, quick, good, and with great potential. When we refinished the floors for the school in which we meet, she was there with a mop.
These two are wonderful examples of servant leadership. A few years ago, while working IYC, on the last night of camp, the dean asked who would like to work on staff in future IYCs. Hands shot up all over the place. Then he said, "Good, please help us pack up and load the trucks." Two people stayed and helped. Servant leadership is lost on so many.