Jude 2

I thought I would move this topic in order to explore it in more depth. I ask:

one love,
Let me ask you what you think about a "professional gambler?" Someone that earns their living playing poker?


TW

*disclaimer: I am going somewhere with this line of questioning.*

one love responded:

never thought about it but I would apply it the same as anything else that is sinful. Ya know i have heard people say i can gamble and never have problems, well many on drugs and alcohol same the same thing. But never the less gambling is an addictive force just as drugs and ruins lives.

As far as professional poker players i have never even thought about it truthfully but i would not do it just as i would not do anything else i consider sinful but that is me, others have a right to feel otherwise

Next question;

one love, how do you feel about a “professional investor.” Someone that earns their living by buying and sell stocks? Not a stock broker, but the person that actually buys and sell their stocks.

didn't someone here say we are all sinners?
if so that would include professional gamblers.

TW wrote:
one love, how do you feel about a “professional investor.” Someone that earns their living by buying and sell stocks? Not a stock broker, but the person that actually buys and sell their stocks.

Well, while I'm not one love, I will add my 2 cents on this. A "professional investor" is actually buying something (a piece of a company). Regardless of what the value of the company does, they still own the same amount of it.

Even though I appreciate your views, and welcome them. For now, I will wait for one love's response, as the question was addressed to him.


TW

TW wrote:Even though I appreciate your views, and welcome them. For now, I will wait for one love's response, as the question was addressed to him.


TW

I pretty much feel the same as the other poster if one invest they are purchasing a piece or part of something, whether a shares of a buisness or even property. Building houses are risky right now just as rishky as stocks but it is not sin....... that is not what im refering to , I know the meanings of gambling but im speaking of straight out gambling.

god thought TW

Now we are getting somewhere. You say,

"I know the meanings of gambling but im speaking of straight out gambling. "

What I am trying is to find at what point does risk taking become "gambling" in your opinion.

I have asked you about two professions, the professional poker player and the professional investor. By your standards one is a sinner and the other is not. Yet there is no real substantive difference in their professions. Both entail risking their money with the potential of earning a net gain (profit).

The professional investor does not buy stock in order to own a part of a particular company. He buys the stock hoping for it's potential increase in price so that he can sell it at a profit. He risk his money on the "chance" to make an increase.

The professional poker player does not play poker for fun. He plays poker hoping for a potential increase in winnings (profit). He risk his money on the "chance" to make an increase.

If the professional investor sees that his investment is not increasing, or showing signs of a potential increase in value, he cuts his loses and sells.

If the professional poker player sees that his hand is weak with no real potential to win the pot, he cuts his loses and folds.

The professional investor attempts to mitigate the risk by studying market trends, world events, and a myriad of other influences. The factors that influence the price of a stock are almost without limit, subjecting the investor to extremely high risk.

The professional poker player attempts to mitigate the risk by studying the odds tables. Poker is based upon mathematical probability. The factors that influence the risk in poker are almost all mathematical, subjecting the poker player to a much lower risk factor.

So wherein lies the difference? When does one become a sin, and the other not? Could it be that preconceived notions or opinions color the way in which we view the two professions? Could it be that we see the investor as a man sitting behind a desk, with his computer, dressed in a white shirt and tie, calling his stock broker telling him when to buy and sell? Could it be that we see the poker player sitting a poker table in a smoke filled room, swilling beer, ogling at scantly clad women while sweat pours from his forehead. Both of these are stereotypical images that do not reflect the truth.

In truth there is little difference between the two professions. Both entail taking acceptable risk in order to realize potential gain (a gamble).


TW

No rebuttal?


TW

TW wrote:No rebuttal?


TW

It's difficult to argue with facts and truth, TW.

No more than professional smokers or professional drinkers are...

I guess that would come down to the question is gambling a sin?

Before we try to split hairs on how to define it, shouldn't we look at whether or not it is sin in and of itself?

What scriptures do we take this stance from?

Pastor Bill wrote:I guess that would come down to the question is gambling a sin?

Before we try to split hairs on how to define it, shouldn't we look at whether or not it is sin in and of itself?

What scriptures do we take this stance from?

Pastor Bill,
You have raised an important point here, the problem is that in order to determine if it's a sin is that we must first arrive at a definition that we all can use as a point of reference (common ground). I believe that one love and the others that are supporting his arguments are defining gambling as participating in "games of chance," such as poker, dice, slots, etc.

With that in mind, what does the Bible say about gambling? I can find no Biblical grounds to prevent me from indulging in a game of chance, should I desire to. The Bible does reference gambling a number of times, in the form of "casting lots." There are 70 references in the OT, and seven in the NT. In the OT it was used in the division of land in Joshua (chapter 14). God instructed the Israelites on this procedure in Numbers 26:55; 33:54; 34:13; 36:2). It was used to determine the will of God, Joshua 18:6-10; 1 Chronicles 24:5,31.

In the NT the 11 Apostles cast lots to determine who would replace Judas (Acts 1:26) and the Roman soldiers casting lots for the robe of Jesus (Matthew 27:35). Now before someone raises the hue and cry that it was a different "casting lots," the same word, Kleros, is used in both scriptures, therefor it would be a safe assumption that it was the same game.

Lacking a Biblical injunction prohibiting gambling, and in fact showing it's use by God to determine his will, I would think that other factors have to be the real reasons behind many Christians aversion.


TW

TW wrote:...
Lacking a Biblical injunction prohibiting gambling, and in fact showing it's use by God to determine his will, I would think that other factors have to be the real reasons behind many Christians aversion.


TW

agreenig, long post deleted. never mind. I am getting dizzy.

I agree there are many things against it, but point blank - This is sin - is hard to come by. I think that there are verses that should guide us in not being foolish with our money, being responsible stewards of what the Lord has given us, and also of course "whatsoever things are good..." but in all that, placing a bet on anything I don't see as prohibited any more than waisting money in "more acceptable" ways.

I will say that it could hurt your witness with many people, but then of course that can't always be the determining factor, because if it were, Christ was pushed on this himself.

I was in Goodlettsville, TN last week and on my way back to Bama, I bought a Powerball ticket for $2 and spent $2 more on a scratch-off. Of course, I lost my $4. Then, again, I lost another $4 in gas from Goodlettsville to the convenience store where I stopped!!! Maybe I should've just bought $4 more in gas and made it another 45 miles!!!!

Pastor Bill wrote:I agree there are many things against it, but point blank - This is sin - is hard to come by. I think that there are verses that should guide us in not being foolish with our money, being responsible stewards of what the Lord has given us, and also of course "whatsoever things are good..." but in all that, placing a bet on anything I don't see as prohibited any more than waisting money in "more acceptable" ways.

I will say that it could hurt your witness with many people, but then of course that can't always be the determining factor, because if it were, Christ was pushed on this himself.

agreed and