Jude 2

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sounds like a question to the state/region overseer's to me. I wish I knew. I know ours was in, in time. we haven't decided our expression yet, as we haven't met to discuss the documents, yet.

Mat wrote:So what's the percentage in your state?

no idea, not even qualified to make a guess. I do know that our church was completed on time.

We got ours in on time, and I have encouraged a couple to... but I was told by one of them that it doesn't matter....they were going to pass what they want to pass They may not be the only ones thinking such...

Daryl

I wish I knew, but I can say this, it was well communicated by our SO, and churches that haven't done it, just didn't do it. For some that may be their way of astaining, or for others it may just be that they don't have a strong opinion on these issues.

While I don't know if this is the best process overall, I will say this, having between 10% and 50% representation across the US is a huge improvement over our previous system, and outside the US, that will be an even larger improvement.

I don't think we will be able to do much better while still holding decisions that require presence of voters in one location at one time for a world-wide organization.

Mat wrote:What percentage of churches in your state/region completed the proxy registration on time so they can have an expression at the International Assembly? Did your local church get registered on time?

My church completed the selection process and mailed the form to the overseer's office in early March. We have one more meeting to go (3/4 completed) in the process of making our expression. We sent questions to Shawn in the General Overseer's office and got a replies from both Shawn and the Chairman of the F&S.

Some of my contacts in other states/regions are reporting various levels of participation, from as low as 10% to has high as 50%. If these percentages hold up on average, which means less that half the local churches in North America will have a representative or expression at the Assembly (from the limited numbers I have its more like 35% or so).

How will the rest of the local churches around the world, even with the extra month for a deadline, properly complete and submit a verifiable registration form?

So what's the percentage in your state?

Mat

Here's another idea....if an average of only 30% registered...that would still be a larger percentage of the overall body than is usually represented at the assembly.

I think we only had about 3000 present for the voting at the last assembly....when you say that we have 1 million members...3000 is nothing!

30% of churches could represent hundreds of thousands world-wide!

Pastor Bill wrote:I don't think we will be able to do much better while still holding decisions that require presence of voters in one location at one time for a world-wide organization.

Just let the international presbytery do it. International representation, leaders lead, simplify Assembly (maybe cheaper? smaller?-may not be a good thing depending on your pov.)

rjjunior wrote:

Pastor Bill wrote:I don't think we will be able to do much better while still holding decisions that require presence of voters in one location at one time for a world-wide organization.

Just let the international presbytery do it. International representation, leaders lead, simplify Assembly (maybe cheaper? smaller?-may not be a good thing depending on your pov.)

I don't see us going quite there, but I could see it start being limited to Ministers, or even Bishops.

Regardless, it seems the proxy system would work better, separated from Assembly, voting regionally, reporting votes, then the Assembly (as well as regional meetings) could facilitate conversation, to draw towards another vote, etc. I think in this age of technology, it seems odd that we expect a global organization to all be present in one location to be counted.

I don't see us going quite there, but I could see it start being limited to Ministers, or even Bishops.

Regardless, it seems the proxy system would work better, separated from Assembly, voting regionally, reporting votes, then the Assembly (as well as regional meetings) could facilitate conversation, to draw towards another vote, etc. I think in this age of technology, it seems odd that we expect a global organization to all be present in one location to be counted.

I think it could work quite easily.

First, remove the 'Mosaic Law' attitude that says what the Assembly passes is gospel (we already got one...it's very nice!*french accent*). Emphasize that the positions recognized by the presbytery are indeed recommendations, not edicts. (If there is a need for a few 'cardinal' truths, so be it, but keep it simple...)

The presbytery commissions members among itself to study and present positions before them and they reach a conclusion they can live with. Send out the letter to the churches asking them to consider the wisdom contained therein. Better yet, the regional overseer (or representative where practically necessary) brings the letter to the local churches and communicates and dialogues with them concerning it. The local church, in turn, considers it and incorporates it as appropriate for them. Is there a single local church that wouldn't feel WAY more connected and "heard" in this manner than having a proxy voice at an Assembly?

Pastor Bill, I believe this fits your (and others') desire to loosen the control ties and simultaneously strengthen the relationship ties. May the leaders see that they must first let go of control to grasp true moral authority.