Jude 2

watch this documentary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpVffsJ0 ... re=related

That would be a hard church to belong to in Hawaii: we have NO SNAKES except in the zoo.

That is a direct descendant of our Church of God heritage. You ought to see the tract A.J. wrote about at one time. Of course Hensley evidently got so radical with it that the Church of God officially distanced itself from it.


The one gap in theological underpinning Hensley and the snake handlers ignored was that classic Holiness Pentecostal thought believed that speaking in tongues, and other supernatural manifestations, were done as enabled by, and at the unction and urging of, the Spirit.

But when it comes to handling serpents and drinking poison the initiator is shifted from the Spirit to the believer. Such would be more aligned with modern fanatical beliefs of charismania such as speaking/praying in tongues at will, etc.

Poimen wrote:Such would be more aligned with modern fanatical beliefs of charismania such as speaking/praying in tongues at will, etc.

I understand this statement, however, I think the word fanatical is a little strong (maybe not in the intended context) and could be unfair concerning those who truly walk in the Spirit at the supernatural level, i.e., Wigglesworth. Even Paul stated that he spoke in tongues more than all. Wouldn't it be possible for one to be so in tune with the Spirit that they could begin to speak and tongues naturally flow forth? I liken it to those who have danced first and then the Spirit take over, etc. I have actually experienced that one myself.

pa

Poimen wrote:.

But when it comes to handling serpents and drinking poison the initiator is shifted from the Spirit to the believer. Such would be more aligned with modern fanatical beliefs of charismania such as speaking/praying in tongues at will, etc.

Poinmen, this is an asumption on your part and one that in reality cannot be supported. While I certinally would not like to pick up serpents nor am I inclined to agree with their theology. You nor I can truly say whether they are doing so by " The Spirit" or by "Flesh" ost of their testimonies are stated, " I can't do this in the flesh "

Nor is your assumption concerning the charismatic praying in tongues at will a correct statement.

Paul said praying with out ceasing, always making supplication, being filled with the Holy Spirit, praying in tongues more than you all,

If indeed we pray in tongues by the Spirit, and the spirit residing in us continually, and the Spirit being subject to the the believer, and we live by the spirit and quench it not, Then in reality I choose not to quench the spirit, and release it and the tongues comes forth to intercede for me, as I know not what I have need of. Am I doing it at will ? am I out of order ?

Your statement are bias and completely directed by your denominational orientation.

A whole lot of assumption

paul wrote:
Your statement are bias and completely directed by your denominational orientation.

A whole lot of assumption

Sounds like them folks that holler "ouch, my toes" or "you've quit preaching and gone to meddling" when the message gets to close to home for them.



Having a little fun with ya now brother.

Poimen wrote:

paul wrote:
Your statement are bias and completely directed by your denominational orientation.

A whole lot of assumption

Sounds like them folks that holler "ouch, my toes" or "you've quit preaching and gone to meddling" when the message gets to close to home for them.



Having a little fun with ya now brother.

Not at all. I am very comfortable in my belief, and walk with Christ. simply tire when others impose their view of theology on people when in reality it cannot be supported. You know like karen

but with you my friend, I'm also having fun

Poimen you are absolutely right, don't let these guys deceive you.

It is always as the spirit gives utterance, no matter what scripture one over emphasize to make it look like it's not.

Pastor Gary wrote:That would be a hard church to belong to in Hawaii: we have NO SNAKES except in the zoo.

I've heard snakes weren't native but how does Hawaii remain snake free? I would think just a few let loose would populate the islands over time.

Pastor Gary wrote:That would be a hard church to belong to in Hawaii: we have NO SNAKES except in the zoo.

Okay, that does it. I'm moving to Hawaii. I don't care how much it costs. To live in a snake-free environment... now THAT'S paradise.

YOu can't be a pastor very long and not be a "snake handler"

Dr. Ron wrote:YOu can't be a pastor very long and not be a "snake handler"

soulsearcher wrote:

Pastor Gary wrote:That would be a hard church to belong to in Hawaii: we have NO SNAKES except in the zoo.

Okay, that does it. I'm moving to Hawaii. I don't care how much it costs. To live in a snake-free environment... now THAT'S paradise.

PREACH

KB

Poimen wrote:That is a direct descendant of our Church of God heritage. You ought to see the tract A.J. wrote about at one time. Of course Hensley evidently got so radical with it that the Church of God officially distanced itself from it.


The one gap in theological underpinning Hensley and the snake handlers ignored was that classic Holiness Pentecostal thought believed that speaking in tongues, and other supernatural manifestations, were done as enabled by, and at the unction and urging of, the Spirit.

But when it comes to handling serpents and drinking poison the initiator is shifted from the Spirit to the believer. Such would be more aligned with modern fanatical beliefs of charismania such as speaking/praying in tongues at will, etc.

You know I never thought about it in that way (the initiation of it) but that makes sense, I've always been leery of that attitude with any move "of the Spirit" being controlled or initiated by the person rather than being led, but I never associated it with snakehandling.

pastorables wrote:

Poimen wrote:Such would be more aligned with modern fanatical beliefs of charismania such as speaking/praying in tongues at will, etc.

I understand this statement, however, I think the word fanatical is a little strong (maybe not in the intended context) and could be unfair concerning those who truly walk in the Spirit at the supernatural level, i.e., Wigglesworth. Even Paul stated that he spoke in tongues more than all. Wouldn't it be possible for one to be so in tune with the Spirit that they could begin to speak and tongues naturally flow forth? I liken it to those who have danced first and then the Spirit take over, etc. I have actually experienced that one myself.

pa

I see the difference here being the Spirit is taking over, or taking the initiative, nothing odd, wrong or dangerous about dancing, singing or speaking, then the Spirit takes over, but handling snakes, you're catching them bringing them in and picking them up, where does the Spirit seem to take over?

Also regarding other manifestations, I hate to hear someone say, "I'm going to prophesy over you" or "come let's all speak in tongues" that's not following the Spirit, it's commanding and expecting the Spirit to follow you.