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strength in corporate prayer
Posted: April 26th, 2008, 3:00 pm
by Full Quiver
oletimer wrote:There is strenght in that kind of pray. Same as in prayer and fasting.
Sorry if I sound like a punk but I find myself asking, Scriptures please (to support such a notion).
This was taken from the thread about the prayer mountain in Korea. It seems that some believe that a special strength resides in the prayer of the multitude. I was just looking for Scriptural support of such and I don't believe the verse offered by Oletimer to be such.
Mt 17:21
Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.
Posted: April 26th, 2008, 4:06 pm
by oletimer
Full Quiver Posted: Subject: strength in corporate prayer
oletimer wrote:
There is strenght in that kind of pray. Same as in prayer and fasting.
Sorry if I sound like a punk but I find myself asking, Scriptures please (to support such a notion).
This was taken from the thread about the prayer mountain in Korea. It seems that some believe that a special strength resides in the prayer of the multitude. I was just looking for Scriptural support of such and I don't believe the verse offered by Oletimer to be such.
Mt 17:21
Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.
Pastor Gary
Subject: Prayer
Gerald Creasy wrote:
I am comfortable knowing God hears my most minute heartfealt cry and do not think that numbers praying, duration of the prayer, or a special prayer place impresses him one whit.
But it makes US feel better and more holy and more dedicated to undergo a pilgramage, and How We Feel is all that matters in the modern church.
Private prayer, whispered prayer, wailing prayer, secret prayer, corporate prayer... all are valid, and God hears them all, but, Gerald, unless you have experienced the faith-building synergy that comes from a place dedicated to NOTHING BUT prayer, you can't imagine what it is like. I seem to recall a certain pool in the New Testament that was a "special prayer place"...
_________________
PG, I agree.
Mt 17:21
Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.
The verse does fit the part on prayer and fasting and the strenght to be had from it.
But guess what they were doing on the day of Penacost. Remember when Peter was in jail, what was the the people doing?
Corporate prayer was practice in the NT. What I had in mind was our experience in lengthy prayer either in private, or as a corporate.
What I felt was our quick prayers may get us by for a while, but after a while we will need our time in deep prayer.
Not throwing any rocks, but just encouraging us to think about deeper prayer and to ingage in it. Thanks
Posted: April 26th, 2008, 4:41 pm
by Gerald Creasy
It is one thing to say Corporate Prayer was practiced.
It is another thing to say corporate prayer IS MORE LIKELY TO BE ANSWERED or MORE POWERFUL than a single prayer.
I do not believe that can be supported by scripture (but when has that ever stopped us Pentecostals?)
Posted: April 26th, 2008, 4:44 pm
by oletimer
It is another thing to say corporate prayer IS MORE LIKELY TO BE ANSWERED or MORE POWERFUL than a single prayer.
never said it did.
Posted: April 26th, 2008, 4:50 pm
by TW
There is scriptural basis for corporate prayer.
Ac 1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
Ac 6:4 But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.
Rom 15:30 Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;
2 co 1:11 Ye also helping together by prayer for us, that for the gift bestowed upon us by the means of many persons thanks may be given by many on our behalf.
These scriptures all speak of plural (more than one, i.e. corporate) prayer.
TW
Posted: April 26th, 2008, 4:53 pm
by scooter
Gerald Creasy wrote:It is one thing to say Corporate Prayer was practiced.
It is another thing to say corporate prayer IS MORE LIKELY TO BE ANSWERED or MORE POWERFUL than a single prayer.
I do not believe that can be supported by scripture (but when has that ever stopped us Pentecostals?)
Response: I like the Biblical principle of two being better than one and threefold being better than that.
I like the part about how beautiful in the sight of God it is for people to function as he designed together. I like the one mind and one accord principle that shows up when people are simply seeking God together.
I like the Biblical principle of one a thousand two ten thousand.
I like the effect of living right and praying. That coupled with an enhanced delivery certianly does make a difference according to scripture.
God showed the power of unhealthy human unity in Babel why deny the healthy aspects?
Posted: April 26th, 2008, 5:04 pm
by Gerald Creasy
I'm glad you like so many things.
Allow me to ask another question.
Since you like numbers and assume that more numbers accomplish more in prayer,
HOW MANY DOES IT TAKE TO OVER RULE THE WILL OF GOD??
I mean, daggonit man, if power increases with every additional person that prays, maybe you can get enough to force him to cough up his billfold.
Posted: April 26th, 2008, 5:14 pm
by KBevangelist
I just took a class on the Power of Corporate Prayer, by Sue Curran
I will post tomorrow with some notes, they are in office at church right now.
To me the prayer meeting is the lost art so to speak of the church. The more praying done the better off the church would be.
KB
Posted: April 26th, 2008, 5:37 pm
by scooter
Gerald Creasy wrote:I'm glad you like so many things.
Allow me to ask another question.
Since you like numbers and assume that more numbers accomplish more in prayer,
HOW MANY DOES IT TAKE TO OVER RULE THE WILL OF GOD??
I mean, daggonit man, if power increases with every additional person that prays, maybe you can get enough to force him to cough up his billfold.
Response: Your problem is that you think every situation is "God's will" which leaves you behind one huge theological eight ball.
You, in my understanding, are paralized by a misconception of Paul's "God's good pleasure".
Who said anything about "Over Rule the will of God"????
No one but you.
I really find your approach to the subject scripturally unbalanced.
Now don't go running to some extreme, I think the prayer of the individual can be awesome as can worship, however when we join one another we reflect the very nature of God.
I look at it a couple of different ways.
As on a battle field of yesteryear would I rather have one good archer on the wall or many?
Many people pray powerless prayers by neglecting a way of life that is apt to bring answers. So in a way it is an improving of the odds.
I also think God is glorified in unity and that agreeing in prayer holds power. Not over God but over the enemy.
Imagining that the devil has no sway in this world is simply neglecting biblical facts.
PS: I don't base my opinions on anything other than my understanding through and of scripture.
Posted: April 26th, 2008, 5:56 pm
by Gerald Creasy
scooter wrote:Response: Your problem is that you think every situation is "God's will" which leaves you behind one huge theological eight ball.
You, in my understanding, are paralized by a misconception of Paul's "God's good pleasure".
Who said anything about "Over Rule the will of God"????
No one but you.
I really find your approach to the subject scripturally unbalanced.
Now don't go running to some extreme, I think the prayer of the individual can be awesome as can worship, however when we join one another we reflect the very nature of God.
I look at it a couple of different ways.
As on a battle field of yesteryear would I rather have one good archer on the wall or many?
Many people pray powerless prayers by neglecting a way of life that is apt to bring answers. So in a way it is an improving of the odds.
I also think God is glorified in unity and that agreeing in prayer holds power. Not over God but over the enemy.
Imagining that the devil has no sway in this world is simply neglecting biblical facts.
PS: I don't base my opinions on anything other than my understanding through and of scripture.
The MOMENT you say that "More people have more power in prayer" you make the issue prayed ABOUT a numbers contest (
If we have enough numbers we can sway God)
God then loses the deciding factor, forfeiting it to man.
You say you base your belief on Bible and yet you give illustrations and "I look at is as" to champion your stance.
If GOD decides NOT to answer a prayer a certain way it doesn't mater if you filled FOTW so thick with people praying that you couldnt swing a dead cat.
If God dosent want [insert request here] it, it ain't gonna be.
You leave God out of things to the point you are almost a Deist.
Sorry
Posted: April 26th, 2008, 6:22 pm
by scooter
Who on here doesn't know you can't make God do something He doesn't want to do?
You're beating against the air and wasting your time.
I have a question for you. Why pray?
Re: Sorry
Posted: April 26th, 2008, 6:37 pm
by Gerald Creasy
scooter wrote:Who on here doesn't know you can't make God do something He doesn't want to do?
Well Gee, If One guy prays and you tell him "Hey, You got a better chance of getting your prayer answered if you have four hundred pray" you are telling him that Gods reluctance to answer his measily little prayer has a CAN BE OVERCOME BY NUMBERS.
scooter wrote:You're beating against the air and wasting your time.
I have talked enough with you in the matter of Gods soverignty to know that you are more deist than is healthy. As you told me -as your ol' Pastor told you- God created the world then stepped back and let it go, stepping in only once in a while. (Which is nutshell definition of semi-deist)
scooter wrote:I have a question for you. Why pray?
Right back at you; Why pray, THY WILL BE DONE? (If you're just gonna try to overcome that Will with numbers???)
My weakness has become my strength.
Re: Sorry
Posted: April 27th, 2008, 2:55 am
by scooter
Gerald Creasy wrote:scooter wrote:Who on here doesn't know you can't make God do something He doesn't want to do?
Well Gee, If One guy prays and you tell him "Hey, You got a better chance of getting your prayer answered if you have four hundred pray" you are telling him that Gods reluctance to answer his measily little prayer has a CAN BE OVERCOME BY NUMBERS.
scooter wrote:You're beating against the air and wasting your time.
I have talked enough with you in the matter of Gods soverignty to know that you are more deist than is healthy. As you told me -as your ol' Pastor told you- God created the world then stepped back and let it go, stepping in only once in a while. (Which is nutshell definition of semi-deist)
scooter wrote:I have a question for you. Why pray?
Right back at you; Why pray, THY WILL BE DONE? (If you're just gonna try to overcome that Will with numbers???)
My weakness has become my strength.
Response: Lot of people calling you for prayer are there? Strength?
Your strength is the ability to argue non-issues. You start at one point, create false scenerios, based your understanding on something I may have heard in 1991, assume that is what I think and then spout off as an authority of who I am.
Go ahead and mark out your position against corporate prayer, worship, fellowship or whatever.
You side step the issue, as usual, painting a school scarlet herring, of "Overcoming the will of God", "measily little prayer", yada yada yada, to detract from the weakness of your position.
Then when you can produce no
real evidence you attack me instead of my arguement. Big surprise that you would resort to such.
Why does the Bible say that two are better than one if they are not?
Why does the Bible promote a enhanced presence of God in the gathering of believers?
Fellowship, unity, and working as a part of a whole are all blessed Biblical practices and those practices include praying together.
Sorry if all you have is straw men, red herrings, fallacy and ad hominem attacks to defend your position. Better luck with some one who doesn't know better.
We have Biblical examples of corporate prayer practiced in NT tradition.
Do you have any Biblical evidence that God does not bless such?
Well now, That's what I thought.
Posted: April 27th, 2008, 3:05 am
by Alan
2 Chronicles 7:14 says people, plural not singular. In other words for that prayer to be answered it couldn't just be one, it had to be His people, not just a person. There is power in corporate prayer, why else would Jesus say "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." in Matthew 18:20? Why else would Jesus ask his disciples to pray with him?
Strength in prayer
Posted: April 27th, 2008, 3:12 am
by Dr. Ron
BOYS BOYS.....or as your grandpa would say....."Hey boooyssss"
It's not about the numbers or the intensity.....it's about the unity.......get it?
You are both right in some ways and wrong in some ways.
It's like fasting.....fasting is not a "bargaining chip" with God...."hey, I'll trade you two meals for one miracle".....it's about sensitivity to the voice of God.
You both needs to hug and kiss and make up or I will get Shellie to take care of you both..........