Todd Bentley and Healing angels

[Gerald Creasy]

Interesting article on todd Bentley at Apologeticsindex.org

In an early report about the Lakeland, Florida, meetings, Bentley was asked to describe the angel he claims to have seen:

I spoke with Bentley over the telephone about the meetings and asked him how it was that the initial conference at Ignited Church, scheduled to last only five days, has now turned into extended meetings. Todd replied that weeks ago, while he was doing some healing meetings in Australia, a man from New Zealand called him saying he had “seen” the tent peg of the Lord’s being driven into the soil of Florida and that somehow he felt God was going to use Todd to facilitate that.

Bentley remembered the man’s word, but didn’t think anything of it until the second night of the Lakeland meetings when he said he saw an angel he described as carrying the “Winds of Change.”

Asking him to describe this angel, Bentley replied that those familiar with the life of William Branham would recognize the angel from being a relevant factor in his healing ministry. He felt that this angel’s appearance signaled a “shift in the atmosphere” for the meetings and felt that an openness for revival had been ushered in.
- Source: Reports of Revival Breaking Out in Lakeland, Florida, Teresa Neumann - BCN Exclusive (April 11, 2008), as posted at the website of Fresh Fire Ministries

Those familiar the life of William Branham know that he was a heretic who denied the doctrine of the Trinity.

Branham also taught that the Word of God was given in three forms: the zodiac, the Egyptian pyramids, and the written scripture.

Branham’s popularity was due mainly to his ability to discern people’s illnesses. Also, many healings took place at his meetings, but not as many as were claimed. While Branham’s services were powerful - “…a legend unparalled in the history of the charismatic movement” - some question the source of his healing power:

Years ago (William Branham) told his interpreter, Pastor Ruff, “If my angel does not give the sign, I cannot heal.” Ruff noticed several features of spiritism in the work of Branham, and therefore stopped working with him. These “angels” of whom (Harry) Edwards and Branham spoke are evil spirits masquerading as angels of light. As in many areas of the occult, we are here reminded again that the devil appears as an angel of light (2 Cor. 11:14) Another evidence is the fact that neither Edwards nor Branham were able to perform cures when faced with born-again Christians who had committed themselves to the protection of Christ. In the case of Branham, I have experienced this myself. When he spoke in Karlsruhe and Lausanne, there were several believers among the audience — including myself — who prayed along these lines: “Lord, if this man’s powers are from You, then bless and use him, but if the healing gifts are not from You, then hinder him.” The result? On both occasions Branham said from the platform, “There are disturbing powers here. I can do nothing.”
- Source: Kurt Koch, Occult ABC, 1978, p. 235

Emphasis mine.


ENTIRE ARTICLE HERE

[Full Quiver]

Gerald, I attended a church twice that had pictures of Branham in their sanctuary. I had to use Google to figure out who this man was. Their senior pastor had pictures of himself on the walls and it seemed that he was levitating above the masses at tent revivals. They were obvious photoshops or trick photography etc. The people seemed to be nice enough but there was a soon split in the congregation which involved many factors Branham maybe one of them.

[THE RAzEr]

Interesting article on todd Bentley at Apologeticsindex.org

In an early report about the Lakeland, Florida, meetings, Bentley was asked to describe the angel he claims to have seen:

Asking him to describe this angel, Bentley replied that those familiar with the life of William Branham would recognize the angel from being a relevant factor in his healing ministry. He felt that this angel’s appearance signaled a “shift in the atmosphere” for the meetings and felt that an openness for revival had been ushered in.
- Source: Reports of Revival Breaking Out in Lakeland, Florida, Teresa Neumann - BCN Exclusive (April 11, 2008), as posted at the website of Fresh Fire Ministries

[Another evidence is the fact that neither Edwards nor Branham were able to perform cures when faced with born-again Christians who had committed themselves to the protection of Christ. In the case of Branham, I have experienced this myself. When he spoke in Karlsruhe and Lausanne, there were several believers among the audience — including myself — who prayed along these lines: “Lord, if this man’s powers are from You, then bless and use him, but if the healing gifts are not from You, then hinder him.” The result? On both occasions Branham said from the platform, “There are disturbing powers here. I can do nothing.”
- Source: Kurt Koch, Occult ABC, 1978, p. 235

Emphasis mine.


ENTIRE ARTICLE HERE

Amazing. Would it be possible for a few believers then to go down to Lakeland and stop this thing before it gets out of hand? Or maybe just say the WORD OF FAITH, and stop the miracle. At least this seems to be what the writter did while there at Branham's meeting. This article brings about as many questions as it does answers.

There is also an inferrence. Namely, no one who was ever healed in Branham's meetings was born again. Thus, it is further inferred no one at the Lakeland revival is Born Again. If there is anyone Born Again there the healings could not occur. Once again I find this Amazing.

It is well established here on Jude 2 many do not have a lot of confidence in people who say the WORD for miracles to be performed. I am hopeful these same folks will find it some what strange miracles can be stopped just by some one saying the WORD. If it could be so, enough WORDS have been said to stop it. Yet it ocntinues in spite of the Born Again.

Ray

[Gerald Creasy]

There is also an inferrence. Namely, no one who was ever healed in Branham's meetings was born again. Thus, it is further inferred no one at the Lakeland revival is Born Again. If there is anyone Born Again there the healings could not occur. Once again I find this Amazing.

There is an assumption BEYOND that:

Namely, A man that Denies the Trinity, Made False Prophecies, and equated the Zodiac with The Word Of God could EVEN have DIVINE healing manifested through him.

These THREE qualities alone are enough proof to me that the healings -if any true healings even occured- were not of divine origin.

If they then were not of divine origin it is not only NOT amazing that Born Again believers were not healed, but reasonable.

[dolfan]

Bentley remembered the man’s word, but didn’t think anything of it until the second night of the Lakeland meetings when he said he saw an angel he described as carrying the “Winds of Change."

Jesus said in John 3 that the wind blows where it wills, but you don't know where it comes from or where it is going. Angels don't carry winds in the bible. Now, He does make His angels carry His message as if by wind (Hebrews 1:7), or if you prefer another application of that verse, he sends His messages by those spiritual beings He employs (typically referred to or interpreted as angels, right?). So, point is: Angels don't carry the wind, they carry a message. What is that message?

Oh, yeah .... "change". Where else am I hearing that? Is this guy an Obama supporter?? Seriously, this guy is saying, "God showed me angels carrying winds of change." What does change look like? I mean, he actually saw it being carried, so I'd like to know what he saw. No one sees the wind. You see what the wind does, though, so I'll give him that much, even. Alright .... change. What change did he see? Someone ask him, please.

I think I know. "Change" your money to my money. "Change": all that you have left in your pocket after making your money his money. What a load.

He felt that this angel’s appearance signaled a “shift in the atmosphere” for the meetings and felt that an openness for revival had been ushered in.

Okay, so now we know what the change is: a shift in the atmosphere for the meetings. An ushering in of openness. None of that stuff, none of it, is any kind of language we see in the bible by the most apostolic of all apostolics ..... the apostles. None of them describe God's actions that way. Zero of them. The survey is in. All of it is is just 100% gobbledygook. Disgusting.

Years ago (William Branham) told his interpreter, Pastor Ruff, “If my angel does not give the sign, I cannot heal.”

Now, I'll give this Ruff guy credit. Change "heal" to "steal". This guyevidently understood, and it resulted in free tacos for everybody. The National Weather Service noted a palpable change in the atmosphere for the next 72 hours. (Okay, just kidding on that part.)

[THE RAzEr]

There is also an inferrence. Namely, no one who was ever healed in Branham's meetings was born again. Thus, it is further inferred no one at the Lakeland revival is Born Again. If there is anyone Born Again there the healings could not occur. Once again I find this Amazing.

There is an assumption BEYOND that:

Namely, A man that Denies the Trinity, Made False Prophecies, and equated the Zodiac with The Word Of God could EVEN have DIVINE healing manifested through him.

These THREE qualities alone are enough proof to me that the healings -if any true healings even occured- were not of divine origin.

If they then were not of divine origin it is not only NOT amazing that Born Again believers were not healed, but reasonable.

So it is reasonable to believe there is no one in this revival in FL. who claims healing to also be Borm again? I just want to understand the premise here.

What I thought was more amazing was the assertion Born Again believers being at Barnham's meetimg could stop him from doing anything. The writer of the article does not assert there were no miracles. He asserts the miracles could not happen when he and aome others he knew prayed for them to happen if they were of God (if they were indeed Born Again, should they have known) or not to happen if they were not of God. The writer shows great arrogance in thinking he and his friends to be the only Believers there, and the only ones powerful enough to stop it.

I wanted to point out, the writer needs to go down to FL. and shut down the revival! All this writer needs to do is NAME IT AND CLAIM IT.

Whether, the meeting in FL is of God or not will bear the examination of truth. Whether this guy or any other Born Again believer can stop it bears some truth searching also. If a Born Again beliver could have stopped Branham, why didn't someone do it. If this is all it takes to stop the meeting in FL --- by all means someone go do it.

This would be amazing. It could be over tonight just by the arrival of one Born Again person saying Lord if this is you let it happen, but if it is not you don't let it happen --and sure enough --just like Branham -- the man could do nothing -- it would be over. God, who was present all the time, could not stop Branham, but the writer of this article presence could. Give us a break!!!

Your thread was about the article. In my opinion the article is bogus. I pointed out several ligitimate reasons. The writer has no authority to to claim his prayer was the reason Branham could not perform at that meeting. He has no evidence to prove no one who was Born Again ever recieved any healings at this meeting. It would be like saying no one could get saved if the Preacher who preached was not right. Healing nor salvation comes because of the person who brings the message. Healing and salvation comes through faith in and by Christ.

As Paul walked to the Temple the Devil cried out. The fact that he was a servsnt of the most high God did not stop the work of the Devil. The devination of who he was revealed itself through the one possessed. The Devil was at work. Paul then cast the Devil out of her.

The writer of this article states Branham ( and by imlication this meeting in Fl.) would not be able to happen if Born Again believers were present. In a sense he labels all who are there not Born Again. However, he is arrogant enough to imply if he were there he would stop it by his Born Againess just like he stopped Branham.
---And that in my opinion is amazing! he and his friends should get a bus load of Born Again people and start a 'shutem down' tour all across the nation and the world! I betcha some one would put them on the Church channel!!! BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS SPEAK THE WORD AND SHUT DOWN MEETINGS ACROSS THE PLANET. Better buy some more buses!!!!!!!!!!!!! Planes, trains, and automobiles.

Ray

[Gerald Creasy]

Razer please re-read the article.

The person who said Branham couldnt heal was a person QUOTED by the author of the article. Not the author of the article himself.


PS You're not one of those people waiting for Branham to resurrect himself are you?

[THE RAzEr]

Razer please re-read the article.

The person who said Branham couldnt heal was a person QUOTED by the author of the article. Not the author of the article himself.


PS You're not one of those people waiting for Branham to resurrect himself are you?

You may be right about who the writer says prayed the prayer to stop the miracles. He places in quotations something Ruff had said. He talks about Believers being at a certain location. Then he says without quoatation marks he has experienced this himself. If he is talking about someone else he does not make it clear.

Really it does not matter. He definately infers the power to keep it from happening is because the Believers, or Born Again people were there. I challenge any Born Again people to go stop it in FL if this is the case.

Now, if Branham was saved by Grace, he will ressurect at the catching up. If he was not, he will come forth to be judged. I assure you my being Born Again or my opinion will have no bearng on the matter. Niether will yours.

I am not a supporter of Branham. I recieved a ridiculous letter many years ago. It was from his ministry. it purprted there were three great men blessed of god, and given the suffic HAM to there name: Abraham: Graham: and Branham. Ridiculous? Yep.
Still, I am not a supporter of the premise of this article that there were people who could have stopped him, because they were Born Again. If they could have, they failed miserably.

Ray

[Gerald Creasy]

Now, if Branham was saved by Grace, he will ressurect at the catching up. If he was not, he will come forth to be judged. I assure you my being Born Again or my opinion will have no bearng on the matter. Niether will yours.

Ray

What are you saying?

That if a person works false miracles via occultic means that a persons salvation does not protect them from that occultic power?

Surely you do not dispute that?

Or that Branham could equate the Zodiac with the Word of God and it dosent really matter because relating that fact is "opinion" and therefore of no import?

Or are you saing that miracles (whatever the origin) are beyond examination and no questions should be asked whatsoever?

I do not know if it is your "style" of phrasing things or what but I am having extreme difficulty in deciphering the odd way you present your points....whatever they may be.

[THE RAzEr]

Now, if Branham was saved by Grace, he will ressurect at the catching up. If he was not, he will come forth to be judged. I assure you my being Born Again or my opinion will have no bearng on the matter. Niether will yours.

Ray

What are you saying?

That if a person works false miracles via occultic means that a persons salvation does not protect them from that occultic power?

Surely you do not dispute that?

Or that Branham could equate the Zodiac with the Word of God and it dosent really matter because relating that fact is "opinion" and therefore of no import?

Or are you saing that miracles (whatever the origin) are beyond examination and no questions should be asked whatsoever?

I do not know if it is your "style" of phrasing things or what but I am having extreme difficulty in deciphering the odd way you present your points....whatever they may be.

Gerald uou know exactly what I said. You know exactly what I did not say.

Not one time have I supported Branham or his miracles.

Not one tome have I supported the meetings in FL.

Branham will rise to life everlasting or will have everlasting separation from God.

My opinion or yours doesn't matter where that is concerned. He was saved or not saved and it is settled.

Being Born Again does not determine whether miracles are or are not done at these meetings.

If it does, are you born again?

If the answer is yes and you agree with the article, stop swawqing and go to FL.

Once you get there the guy should not be able to do anything bcause of your presence in the building.

If you know you wouldn't stop it just because you are there, then we are in agreement. I do not think you could stop it. You would if you could.

So what don't you understand?

It is not in your control, nor the control of the guy who wrote the article or the guys he wrote about who were Born Again.

The things purpoted in this article of the Devil working miracles through Branham except when Born Again Belivers were present is the flip side of Word of Faith.

If I said it happened you would be on me about it.

If I said I went to a Benny Hinn Crusade and because I was there he could not pray for anyone, and no one could fall backwards, he could not preach heresy, and stated he could 'do nothing", and then I claimed it was 'cause I (oh great man of God) was there, you would not hesitate to call me on it. HOWEVER, THIS GUY SAYS MUCH THE SAME ABOUT A BRANHAM MEETING, AND YOU SWALLOW THE WHOLE HOG.

I tell you this if I were as convinced as you about these guys, and I knew I could stop it, I would.

You would too. Even though you are Born Again, HOWEVER, Charlatans will keep doing what they do.

I think some have probably even done so in your Esteemed Born Again Presence.

Ray

[Gerald Creasy]

Gerald uou know exactly what I said. You know exactly what I did not say.

No, Actually, I am struggling.

Not one time have I supported Branham or his miracles.

Not one tome have I supported the meetings in FL.

Excellent.

Branham will rise to life everlasting or will have everlasting separation from God.

My opinion or yours doesn't matter where that is concerned. He was saved or not saved and it is settled.

How is this germane to the issue?

Being Born Again does not determine whether miracles are or are not done at these meetings.

There are several errors in this statement. The first being the assumption that the current meetings operate under the same method as the Branham meetings (If the events are charlatanism and not the results of a spirit of some type.)

It was Branham, not Bentley, that claimed opposing forces were against him and he could not do anything at certain meetings.

And the articles claim it was not simply the presence of believers but believers praying against falseness that were present at those same meetings.

IF Branham was working under the influence of an deceptive spirit (and beliveing that the Zodiac and Pyramids are The word of God as well as crediting an Angel rather than Christ for healings CERTAINLY indicates he was) then MOST ASSUREDLY the presence of a True Christian praying against him would cause disruption in the same way that Paul caused disruption to the Spirit of Divination at work in Acts 16.


If you read up on the Bentley Revival you will see that it is connected with the ministry of one W V Grant, himself a Branham acolyte (as pictured below) WHOM I PERSONALLY witnessed acts of charlatanism using my own grandmother which included a False healing done in such a way that the entire congregation would SWEAR that they saw my grandmother healed, as well as a False prophecy about her condition.

If Bentley operates as his spiritual father through charlatanism or through his spiritual grandfather through s foul spirit, I do not know.

If you are willing to foot my gas bill, I'll certianly make a trip and give you an assesment.

[THE RAzEr]

Gerald uou know exactly what I said. You know exactly what I did not say.

No, Actually, I am struggling.

Not one time have I supported Branham or his miracles.

Not one tome have I supported the meetings in FL.

Excellent.

Branham will rise to life everlasting or will have everlasting separation from God.

My opinion or yours doesn't matter where that is concerned. He was saved or not saved and it is settled.

How is this germane to the issue?

Answer from Ray. It is only germaine, because yo asked me if I believed Branham would ressurect on his own pwer as he said he would. I did not know what that had to do with the article, but I answered your inquiry.

Being Born Again does not determine whether miracles are or are not done at these meetings.

There are several errors in this statement. The first being the assumption that the current meetings operate under the same method as the Branham meetings (If the events are charlatanism and not the results of a spirit of some type.)

Answer from Ray. This is the problem with the article. It is the article which assumes the current meeting operates under the same method as the Branham meetings. To me that is the iferrence of the entire article.

It was Branham, not Bentley, that claimed opposing forces were against him and he could not do anything at certain meetings.

Answer from Ray. Correct, but it is the writer of the article putting them togather, not me. the inferrence of the article is lie Branham--Like Bentley. Or do you think this is noy what the writer is inferring.

And the articles claim it was not simply the presence of believers but believers praying against falseness that were present at those same meetings.

Answer from Ray. Oh, but he did. he said both things. He said Branham could not operate when Born Again Believers were present. He mor than likely was quoting some one else. Then he said he had experienced this first hand and continued the story.

IF Branham was working under the influence of an deceptive spirit (and beliveing that the Zodiac and Pyramids are The word of God as well as crediting an Angel rather than Christ for healings CERTAINLY indicates he was) then MOST ASSUREDLY the presence of a True Christian praying against him would cause disruption in the same way that Paul caused disruption to the Spirit of Divination at work in Acts 16.

Answer from Ray. However in the case of paulit was disruption after the fact ans not complete inability of action. If having a Born Again person there could stop these actions, then we would have already done so. Also if having a Born Again person praying would be the redipe for these actions to cease, why can we not pray and they cease. If we can why don'yt we. Then there would be nothing to discuss, I suppose.


If you read up on the Bentley Revival you will see that it is connected with the ministry of one W V Grant, himself a Branham acolyte (as pictured below) WHOM I PERSONALLY witnessed acts of charlatanism using my own grandmother which included a False healing done in such a way that the entire congregation would SWEAR that they saw my grandmother healed, as well as a False prophecy about her condition.

Ray'ay's answer. I am supposing your grandmother was Born Again. I am supposing others present were also. i am supposing the Will of god was being prayed for. Yet this srill happened!!

If Bentley operates as his spiritual father through charlatanism or through his spiritual grandfather through s foul spirit, I do not know.

Ray's Answer. If he does, just like the experience with your Grandmother, he want be silenced just because a Born Again person attends his meeting. Your Grandmother (assuming) and other Born Again people have proved it for years.

If you are willing to foot my gas bill, I'll certianly make a trip and give you an assesment.

Ray's answer. I want bit, because it is not an assesment that is necessary. I tjhink their are Born Again people who have attended those meetings already. It niether supports or denies whether this man , Bentley is a Charlatan or not. If he is -he is! If he is not -he is not!

Peace.

Ray