Jude 2

Folks, here is the capstone of proof -- The man openly admits he was demon possessed as a born again Spirit filled believer, active in ministry and the gifts of the Spirit. He admits that even as a blood bought Spirit filled believer he had 25 demons cast out of him.

Utter absurdity in the name of charasmania.

Listen for yourself HERE.
If you do not want to listen to it all then skip ahead to about 2:30 in the audio.

It doesn't matter, Chris. You won't convert any of the true believers with facts.

He could stand on the stage and yell "BAM!" when he prays for people and they'd still swoon. Oh, wait -- he does that already.

But...but...but.... "I cried so much during Worship!

Didn't the CoGoP teach not that long ago along the same lines that some christians were in need of deliverance? I think it was Tom Jones who taught a class on this?

I'd like to hear Jennifer and Sam Smith's comments now that I have heard Todd in his own voice testify to such madness.

Pastor Gary wrote:
He could stand on the stage and yell "BAM!" when he prays for people and they'd still swoon. Oh, wait -- he does that already.

Everytime I heard him say that on the videos I looked for Emeril Lagasse! He's not even original!

rough_rider wrote:Didn't the CoGoP teach not that long ago along the same lines that some christians were in need of deliverance? I think it was Tom Jones who taught a class on this?

"The COGOP" didn't teach that... a guy within COGOP (Tom Jones) did. Big difference. Another guy in COGOP (Grady Kent) once taught that he was John the Revelator... but you can't blame COGOP for that.

I know one of the women who traveled with Jones and taught a more balanced view of deliverance, and she did NOT teach that Christians could be possessed.

So, Tom Jones taught this in a in a CoGoP biblical class with out authorization to do so? hmmm.

rough_rider wrote:So, Tom Jones taught this in a in a CoGoP biblical class with out authorization to do so? hmmm.

Who "authorizes" your messages each week?? There are thousands of COG/COGOP Bishops preaching and teaching all kind of stuff that nobody "authorized." Have you seen Perry Stone on TV?

Pastor Gary wrote:

rough_rider wrote:So, Tom Jones taught this in a in a CoGoP biblical class with out authorization to do so? hmmm.

Who "authorizes" your messages each week?? There are thousands of COG/COGOP Bishops preaching and teaching all kind of stuff that nobody "authorized." Have you seen Perry Stone on TV?

was it a class?? dont they know what is being taught? or is this not a tomlinson college thing, Im confused and what does perry stone have to do with it??

I sat in on one Tom Jones session of the Assembly program one year. I was impressed more with the people skills of Tom JOnes as in how he reached out to people non-judgementally than any deliverance ministry.

In fact I believe in the session I attended the deliverance thing was barely mentioned.

Years ago- before I became more jaded- I worked with a deliverance ministry. Their statement was not "possessed' but "oppressed".

Oddly enough it was the deliverance experience that incited me. One day I looked around, saw them praying for demonic deliverance from the SAME INDIVIDUALS they had for three years and came to the "This is Bull dookey" conclusion.

Tom Jones through his church did offer some classes (not anything accredited and not exactly "officially CoGoP") I went down there for a week and learned some thing, but also saw alot of things I didn't agree with. I don't think I went to a session on deliverance, but may have, I know I didn't hear anything like this taught, some things the church was doing was innovative, some things were great for that area, but wouldn't have fit in the church I was pastoring then (or now) due to location and community needs, and some things I just didn't agree with.

It wasn't too long before Tom left, and I haven't heard much about him since. My guess is some of the things he was pushing weren't accepted in the CoGoP, and I'd have to agree with some of that.

Yall ain't met some of the "Christian" folks I have then.

I wonder, maybe we should clarify "Christians".

If you embrace eternal security, it is the first flaw of this princple and therefore the reason this question can be asked.

No a "Christian" should not be possessed. Can people, believers in Christ, folks in our churches give place in their lives to the devil? You bet.

Can satan gain a foothold in or with people who believe in Jesus? It happens.

Should it be? No. Is the person still a Christian and possessed? I don't think so. Where that line is drawn I don't know. I do know that there are people who think they are Christians who are possessed.

Should we as the church offer deliverance to those people or should we stand back and act like the problem doesn't exist or that it can't happen because of our flawed understanding of the problem?

I may be a little more old school, but I have always felt it was more important to offer Jesus than deliverance.

Are they still saved, or are they no longer saved, I don't know, but if I can point them to HIM, either way He's capable to take care of it.