Jude 2

Some people and especially movies say or portray that they can see dead people. Why do we assume that dead people can see us?

The only dead people we can see are those who haven't been buried. And I, for one, do not assume that any of them can see us, either before or after they have been buried. (Physically or spiritually), until we die and go to where they are.

Full Quiver wrote:Some people and especially movies say or portray that they can see dead people. Why do we assume that dead people can see us?

Have you been watching "Medium"? Or the one with LoveHewitt?

Howabout:

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Gerald Creasy wrote:Howabout:

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Then what of Moses on the mount of transfiguration? or Samuel with Saul and the witch of Endor?

This was a joke topic that I thought would be interesting.

Very good points Poimen!

Poimen wrote:

Gerald Creasy wrote:Howabout:

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Then what of Moses on the mount of transfiguration? or Samuel with Saul and the witch of Endor?

you beat me to it I was going to say the same thing, samuel definelty was able to see saul and saul was able to see him not to mention Moses. Very good point Poimen

Poimen wrote:

Gerald Creasy wrote:Howabout:

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Then what of Moses on the mount of transfiguration? or Samuel with Saul and the witch of Endor?

What of it?

Do you think that the appearance of Moses at the transfiguration would then render Ecc 9:5 null and void?

Do you think that the Endor incident prooves demonic power has authority over the dead? And therby making Ecc 9:5 null and void because the dead would be sources of wisdom and advice KNOWING much???

I find it hard to understand why someone would use a special moment in the life of Christ -a supernatural GOD CENTERED- moment, to argue for the existence of ghosts, and spirits haunting the world.

I can understand why the Endor incident is used but it assumes That Samuel appeared BECAUSE OF the witch's power -when her reaction shows she was as shocked as anyone there. Because of that assumption the conclusion is drawn that ECC 9:5 dosen't mean what it says and theres a whole spirit world of ghost wandering the earth.

I have debated enough with Pentecostals to know my reading of the Endor incident will not be accepted: Jesus can me anything, or nothing in Pentecostalism but don't you dare question the power of their witches or occult beliefs.

Gerald Creasy wrote:

Poimen wrote:

Gerald Creasy wrote:Howabout:

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Then what of Moses on the mount of transfiguration? or Samuel with Saul and the witch of Endor?

What of it?

Do you think that the appearance of Moses at the transfiguration would then render Ecc 9:5 null and void?

Do you think that the Endor incident prooves demonic power has authority over the dead? And therby making Ecc 9:5 null and void because the dead would be sources of wisdom and advice KNOWING much???

I find it hard to understand why someone would use a special moment in the life of Christ -a supernatural GOD CENTERED- moment, to argue for the existence of ghosts, and spirits haunting the world.

I can understand why the Endor incident is used but it assumes That Samuel appeared BECAUSE OF the witch's power -when her reaction shows she was as shocked as anyone there. Because of that assumption the conclusion is drawn that ECC 9:5 dosen't mean what it says and theres a whole spirit world of ghost wandering the earth.

I have debated enough with Pentecostals to know my reading of the Endor incident will not be accepted: Jesus can me anything, or nothing in Pentecostalism but don't you dare question the power of their witches or occult beliefs.

On the contrary it does not make it null and void just maybe your interpretation of it. The verse says
Eccl 9:5

5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
KJV

Are you implying that when we die we know nothing? that we also have no reward? certainly not. Yet the verse IMHO is saying the dead have no more reward on earth and they know nothing because they are not contributing to our world any longer. This is why it says "the memory of them is forgotten" meaning after time passes this world will forget all about you, our reward is in heaven.
Was Moses there? Yes! so people saw someone that was dead. Was Samuel seen by them? Yes, so people saw someone that was dead. However it happened it did occur so we can't say well this is null and void because you feel it occurred one way instead of another, it still occurred.

Now on the other side of this argument I am not really into hauntings and seeing ghost except I think there is a lot of demonic activities that go on that we can not explain. Admitting that they saw Moses and Samuel you would being saying that verse is null and void.

Just my thoughts and I am interested in all opinions because I get asked this a lot and my answer is people go to heaven or hell so when they saw them, I don’t have a real answer. Some say it was not Samuel I believe it was however the bible is clear it is against doing such things. Saul was not supposed to do that.......

one love wrote:On the contrary it does not make it null and void just maybe your interpretation of it. The verse says
Eccl 9:5

5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
KJV

Are you implying that when we die we know nothing? that we also have no reward? certainly not. Yet the verse IMHO is saying the dead have no more reward on earth and they know nothing because they are not contributing to our world any longer. This is why it says "the memory of them is forgotten" meaning after time passes this world will forget all about you, our reward is in heaven.
Was Moses there? Yes! so people saw someone that was dead. Was Samuel seen by them? Yes, so people saw someone that was dead. However it happened it did occur so we can't say well this is null and void because you feel it occurred one way instead of another, it still occurred.

Now on the other side of this argument I am not really into hauntings and seeing ghost except I think there is a lot of demonic activities that go on that we can not explain. Admitting that they saw Moses and Samuel you would being saying that verse is null and void.

Just my thoughts and I am interested in all opinions because I get asked this a lot and my answer is people go to heaven or hell so when they saw them, I don’t have a real answer. Some say it was not Samuel I believe it was however the bible is clear it is against doing such things. Saul was not supposed to do that.......

Okay. for discussion I'll accept your refusal of "my interpretation".

Jesus told the thief on the cross "To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."

If a departed believer is with Christ in paradise, what makes one think they'd get so bored with THE ETERNAL ONE that they'd actually have time to think "I wonder what my grandchildren are doing...I think leave the creator and go back and scare them by rattling the china in the cupboard.

In additon Hbr 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Why do people insert a spiritual afterlife in between the "once to die" and "after this the judgement"???????????????????????

It dosent say "after this and floating around disembodied for ages at the summon of demonic forces", does it?

Gerald Creasy wrote:

one love wrote:On the contrary it does not make it null and void just maybe your interpretation of it. The verse says
Eccl 9:5

5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
KJV

Are you implying that when we die we know nothing? that we also have no reward? certainly not. Yet the verse IMHO is saying the dead have no more reward on earth and they know nothing because they are not contributing to our world any longer. This is why it says "the memory of them is forgotten" meaning after time passes this world will forget all about you, our reward is in heaven.
Was Moses there? Yes! so people saw someone that was dead. Was Samuel seen by them? Yes, so people saw someone that was dead. However it happened it did occur so we can't say well this is null and void because you feel it occurred one way instead of another, it still occurred.

Now on the other side of this argument I am not really into hauntings and seeing ghost except I think there is a lot of demonic activities that go on that we can not explain. Admitting that they saw Moses and Samuel you would being saying that verse is null and void.

Just my thoughts and I am interested in all opinions because I get asked this a lot and my answer is people go to heaven or hell so when they saw them, I don’t have a real answer. Some say it was not Samuel I believe it was however the bible is clear it is against doing such things. Saul was not supposed to do that.......

Okay. for discussion I'll accept your refusal of "my interpretation".

Jesus told the thief on the cross "To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."

If a departed believer is with Christ in paradise, what makes one think they'd get so bored with THE ETERNAL ONE that they'd actually have time to think "I wonder what my grandchildren are doing...I think leave the creator and go back and scare them by rattling the china in the cupboard.

In additon Hbr 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Why do people insert a spiritual afterlife in between the "once to die" and "after this the judgement"???????????????????????

It dosent say "after this and floating around disembodied for ages at the summon of demonic forces", does it?

Gerald on that note we kinda agree. I dont think after we go to heaven we can just come down and mess with people, nor would we want to. I am just suggesting that there are demonic beings here and maybe some times angels are seen I dont know. But I dont see how one in heaven could see there family in despair because there will be no sorrow there and if someone or something was happing to your family how could you be happy.
I was just backing up the thought poimen had that samuel was seen as was moses I am not suggesting that people just have the ability to haunt you. Or that people are in limbo not in heaven or hell wondering the earth.
Hope that makes some sense

My Grandson was at youth camp this past week, he was at one of the services and felt God telling him to go pray. He said he told God he did not want to right now, God spoke again to him to pray. He went and prayed and on his way back he said, " Poppy, I seen Grandpa in the back sitting there watch me when I got saved". Gandpa is my father who had passed this past December. My grandson is no "medium" but when he said he seen my father there watching over him, I believe he did.

rough_rider wrote:My Grandson was at youth camp this past week, he was at one of the services and felt God telling him to go pray. He said he told God he did not want to right now, God spoke again to him to pray. He went and prayed and on his way back he said, " Poppy, I seen Grandpa in the back sitting there watch me when I got saved". Gandpa is my father who had passed this past December. My grandson is no "medium" but when he said he seen my father there watching over him, I believe he did.

Personal experience trumps Bible EVERY TIME!!!!!

Gerald Creasy wrote:

rough_rider wrote:My Grandson was at youth camp this past week, he was at one of the services and felt God telling him to go pray. He said he told God he did not want to right now, God spoke again to him to pray. He went and prayed and on his way back he said, " Poppy, I seen Grandpa in the back sitting there watch me when I got saved". Gandpa is my father who had passed this past December. My grandson is no "medium" but when he said he seen my father there watching over him, I believe he did.

Personal experience trumps Bible EVERY TIME!!!!!

Tell me, what did this 10yr old see? BTW his eye site is just fine...

rough_rider wrote:

Gerald Creasy wrote:

rough_rider wrote:My Grandson was at youth camp this past week, he was at one of the services and felt God telling him to go pray. He said he told God he did not want to right now, God spoke again to him to pray. He went and prayed and on his way back he said, " Poppy, I seen Grandpa in the back sitting there watch me when I got saved". Gandpa is my father who had passed this past December. My grandson is no "medium" but when he said he seen my father there watching over him, I believe he did.

Personal experience trumps Bible EVERY TIME!!!!!

Tell me, what did this 10yr old see? BTW his eye site is just fine...

What did three sheperd children see at Fatima that caused worship of Mary to increase?????

Should I then reinterpret my Bible to include Marian theology????

The true question should be WHy you interpret Bible through the lenses of Personal experience.