Jude 2

Of all the changes in COGOP over the last decade and a half or so, some disagreed with, others I've come to agree with (more or less), I am flabbergasted at the notion that Pastor Gary is being required, compelled, or even strongly influenced to wear a suit to the IA and IO.

Of all the traditional, cultural, non biblical issues COGOP has struggled with, to retain this one is almost laughable. Honestly, it's a bit offensive.

Change markers, reword teachings, loose untold hundreds of thousands of dollars, split the organization, downsize, combine, and sell off properties, etc., all in the name of progress and biblical conformity -- but make sure your overseers wear suits when they come to headquarters and/or the assembly.

I don't know, this just irked me. Of all the superficial, materialistic, cultural and earthly issues Christians must face and overcome, then for this one to be so entrenched as to still be enforced on leadership in the COGOP... unbelievable.

Okay, I have whined about it a bit here -- partly tongue-in-cheek and partly because I don't see the point -- but this is not the hill I want to die on; it's not enough of an issue for me to turn it into a battle.

Oh, I know that PG. I suspect you would have submitted at the suggestion alone. But to be impressed upon and/or required to do so just blows my mind.

They can't say or do anything to me. So I figured I'd share my mind and maybe, just maybe, those who lurk here from IO, would read it and find cause to pause and reflect on the trivial nature of such a thing and the unwarranted prominence it is being given.

Now I'm Curious... do they permit International staff to wear facial hair now? Or is that still unholy?


Scooter, you may have reached your highest office brother -- unless you convince Shellie to shave.

Poimen wrote:Oh, I know that PG. I suspect you would have submitted at the suggestion alone. But to be impressed upon and/or required to do so just blows my mind.

Since you brought it back up:
Yes, if it were presented to me that wearing a suit was the proper attire for an occasion, I am able to show enough common courtesy and respect to willingly comply.

The broader issue, however, is the general perception that the western (American) business suit is somehow the universal standard of attire for people the world over, and for servants, of which I consider myself one. It is a cultural expectation and social obligation and nothing more.

Here's a question I ponder... if a group of leaders dressed in suits walked past a woman and several kids in a minivan with a flat tire, how many would be willing to ruin their suit and get sweaty to change the tire?

Ok, I have really kind of held back on this one. If they just suggested to wear a suit, I dont see nothing wrong with that. If they more or less said you have to, I dont like that at all but suits are a Part of American culture and has become custom (which is greatly changing) that suits are dressing your best. But why enforce it or demand it? Poimen saying they changed so much, yet asked this.

HOWEVER people from other nations wear their own attire that is custom (whether robes etc.--which would be more biblical ) So PG being in Hawaii if people even in a position of respect and honour dress with out a suit it should be looked at that way, as you said you dont even own suits. That shows to me that the culture in hawaii is not one that wears suits all the time. They do have a really big culture there.....i dunno

hey I got it dress as someone would in a luau

Here's a question I ponder... if a group of leaders dressed in suits walked past a woman and several kids in a minivan with a flat tire, how many would be willing to ruin their suit and get sweaty to change the tire?

the answer to that would most likely be heart breaking

Pastor Gary wrote:Here's a question I ponder... if a group of leaders dressed in suits walked past a woman and several kids in a minivan with a flat tire, how many would be willing to ruin their suit and get sweaty to change the tire?

One Sunday morning, my mother, who is now 82, had a flat tire while driving on a parkway in Kentucky.

By chance, along comes a pastor, headed to church. He stops and asks her problem. Then tells her he would like to help,
but it would make him late for church, gets in his car and leaves her stranded.

When she told this, I thought of the story of the good Samaritian. The priest and Levite wouldn't help.

What a good testimony, to have been late for church that morning, and gone in dirty and told why.


RuSKY

Poimen wrote:

Of all the traditional, cultural, non biblical issues COGOP has struggled with, to retain this one is almost laughable.

Change markers, reword teachings, loose untold hundreds of thousands of dollars, split the organization, downsize, combine, and sell off properties, etc., all in the name of progress and biblical conformity -- but make sure your overseers wear suits when they come to headquarters and/or the assembly.

Now Brother....is this anything like you asking men on the platform to not wear earrings?

This is not a christian issue. Being in a professional enviroment, it is often made known that certain attire is expected. He is a State Overseer. There is nothing wrong with the expectation of a suit and tie. If he was unable to or had a conviction against, it would be different.

There are certain meetings that one attends at times and the expection is a Suit. I hope there will be times in everyone's life reading this, when you will be expected to wear a suit. Those are GOOD times!!! Don't stress over it. I don't think PG was trying to say it was unreasonable just different and I don't think he is upset about it.

I don't like wearing slacks and a dress shirt to work everyday, but I do.

They are not telling Pastor's what to wear or requiring suits. And, certainly, they are not attributing spiritual fitness to it.

God Bless You
Daryl

Poimen wrote:Of all the changes in COGOP over the last decade and a half or so, some disagreed with, others I've come to agree with (more or less), I am flabbergasted at the notion that Pastor Gary is being required, compelled, or even strongly influenced to wear a suit to the IA and IO.

Of all the traditional, cultural, non biblical issues COGOP has struggled with, to retain this one is almost laughable. Honestly, it's a bit offensive.

Change markers, reword teachings, loose untold hundreds of thousands of dollars, split the organization, downsize, combine, and sell off properties, etc., all in the name of progress and biblical conformity -- but make sure your overseers wear suits when they come to headquarters and/or the assembly.

I don't know, this just irked me. Of all the superficial, materialistic, cultural and earthly issues Christians must face and overcome, then for this one to be so entrenched as to still be enforced on leadership in the COGOP... unbelievable.

Of all the problems in the church and those facing Christianity, suits or being required or not. somehow do not seem to be number one on the list.

On our recent trip to India. Graduation for the bible college. 113 degrees outside, about 700 people inside wall to wall, no airconditioning fans stopped running.

Required dress code for me, no one else they were in native attire. Suit, tie, cap, gown. And to top it off they presented me with a huge shaw that they drapped over me. I swear it was over a 120 degrees in that building. After about one hour I was completely sopping wet with sweat.

Their requirement, I gladly abided and went on with the program.

Downside, I stunk. Upside: I must have sweated off 10 lbs

Shellie wrote:Now Brother....is this anything like you asking men on the platform to not wear earrings?

Guess I wont ever be asked on to the platform. Oh wait, I was on last year, playing my horn, earrings and all. Never actually thought about it until just now.

It's a giant conspiracy........... trying to get all nations to look and act like us Westerners!!!!

When I was overseer of SD and Texas, most of my pastors wore Cowboy boots. They were not appropriate attire for some suits......but they were for those folks. I could not see myself in a pair of boots with a suit....but then I didn't grow up in that environment. I came to like them quite well.

I wear a suit in the pulpit 11 months out of the year.....for my mom. She believes the pastor should stand in his pulpit in a buisness sort of way. She wants me to wear a suit. So, I want to live a long life and I honor my mother......(that's the book)

She "allows" me to have a month off. I choose August for obvious reasons.
I will wear casual clothing during that month. Then the 1st Sunday of Sept. she will be watching me ......it is laughable...and my church loves it.


They would be happy for me to forget about suits and wear hawaiian shirts.....but they like that I honor my mom.

I don't have a problem with Gary wearing a suit....I just think he should be allowed to make the decision. It's like " You are smart and classy enough to be our overseer , but we can't trust you to know how to dress..." I would be PO'd at that attitude. but then I was POd at a lot of stuff.........don't get me started.

When is classy a requirement to be a overseer ---classy-Highly stylish and elegant, of high class rank or grade)

Anyway I have no problem as said if they asked him to wear a suit it looks professional. I think we should try to look our best within our cultures. I don’t think they should say you have to wear a suit.
I am like Dr Ron 11 months of the year I wear a suit but that is because of choice alone, not because it is expected. If I am in the pulpit I wear a suit, it is just me. I was at another TCOG the other week and only me and a few were the only ones wearing a suit. It is how you feel.

Yet when you are a overseer representing the COGOP I don’t see anything wrong with them asking or suggesting, just not ordering because PG is in Hawaii which is different then our normal culture.

As far as a conspiracy in COGOP I don’t know but I like to see at our assemblies some from other nations wearing the attire that they are used to. In many cases they are looked at like suits are to us

Poimen wrote:

Scooter, you may have reached your highest office brother -- unless you convince Shellie to shave.

Response: I don't think whether my wife shaves or not is anyone's business!

Shellie wrote:Now Brother....is this anything like you asking men on the platform to not wear earrings?

Touche. However, there are some obvious differences in intention behind those. AND, that was a condition I inherited in a single, independent, southern congregation. Yet, I can see your point.