Jude 2

In another thread I am unable to find right now, someone (not sure who) seemed to assert that it really didn't matter who was Overseer of this or that state.

I disagree. Totally.

Leadership matters. I can take you to states that had once vital, strong local churches now decimated by poor leadership, and to states once flush with financial resources that have been bled dry by greedy leaders... states that were once giving and encouraging places but are now beaten down and demoralized because of ineffective leadership. And I can take you to areas where the churches are flourishing, growing and reproducing because of visionary, empowering leadership.

Leadership matters.

Pastor Gary wrote:In another thread I am unable to find right now, someone (not sure who) seemed to assert that it really didn't matter who was Overseer of this or that state.

I disagree. Totally.

Leadership matters. I can take you to states that had once vital, strong local churches now decimated by poor leadership, and to states once flush with financial resources that have been bled dry by greedy leaders... states that were once giving and encouraging places but are now beaten down and demoralized because of ineffective leadership. And I can take you to areas where the churches are flourishing, growing and reproducing because of visionary, empowering leadership.

Leadership matters.

my states strong for a reason. i agree with ya pastor gary!!

AMEN!

I feel like we've really grown stronger under our current overseer, I think the point that was intended is that it's not all the overseer, many times it's the local churches that have to get behind that leader, it's not all on the SO, but poor leadership will hurt even the strongest states/regions, and good leadership will help as much as they can with the cooperation they get. Strong leaders will earn the trust and respect needed to get that cooperation.

I agree too. Take the state of Louisiana (a state the aforementioned poster should know something about since he was once their SO ). It once had a large number of people and churches. Now, combining the TCOG split and a string of do-nothing SO's (a group in which I am definitely not placing the aforementioned poster), that state has almost nothing going on and they had to combine it with Mississippi.

Pastor Gary wrote:In another thread I am unable to find right now, someone (not sure who) seemed to assert that it really didn't matter who was Overseer of this or that state.

I disagree. Totally.

Leadership matters. I can take you to states that had once vital, strong local churches now decimated by poor leadership, and to states once flush with financial resources that have been bled dry by greedy leaders... states that were once giving and encouraging places but are now beaten down and demoralized because of ineffective leadership. And I can take you to areas where the churches are flourishing, growing and reproducing because of visionary, empowering leadership.

Leadership matters.

PG, one of the best post I have read in while.

Pastor Gary wrote:In another thread I am unable to find right now, someone (not sure who) seemed to assert that it really didn't matter who was Overseer of this or that state.

I disagree. Totally.

Leadership matters. I can take you to states that had once vital, strong local churches now decimated by poor leadership, and to states once flush with financial resources that have been bled dry by greedy leaders... states that were once giving and encouraging places but are now beaten down and demoralized because of ineffective leadership. And I can take you to areas where the churches are flourishing, growing and reproducing because of visionary, empowering leadership.

Leadership matters.

Pastor Bill wrote:I feel like we've really grown stronger under our current overseer

Actually, the former overseer, Jerry Smith, was a very progressive and forward thinking person who now has a very successful church in the Nashville area. Another one of COGOP's casualties. I haven't known of the current overseer to be very involved at the local church level at all.

Please correct me if I am wrong but the numbers in KY seem to be down, not up.

Kenya wrote:Please correct me if I am wrong but the numbers in KY seem to be down, not up.

Numbers are "an" indicator, but not "the" indicator of the state of a state. We spent some time talking about that very issue in the pre-Assembly meetings and, in fact, the Overseer's reporting system was radically changed this time.

Kenya wrote:

Pastor Bill wrote:I feel like we've really grown stronger under our current overseer

Actually, the former overseer, Jerry Smith, was a very progressive and forward thinking person who now has a very successful church in the Nashville area. Another one of COGOP's casualties. I haven't known of the current overseer to be very involved at the local church level at all.

Please correct me if I am wrong but the numbers in KY seem to be down, not up.

You are right, I was not downing brother Smith, didn't know him well, as he was on his way out when I was coming in. As for our current SO not being involved on the local level, that's probably not an accurate assessment, it was true of OUR local church, but there were other reasons around that, overall he has been very active, and very involved in leadership development and with local pastors.

Ok I posted this as well I got no response Dr Ron implied that the overseer choice did not matter and I boldly said it did.
Also that anyone that has been around for a while knows that some states have flourished under one person and been destroyed under another.

PG I agree as well, My voice must not mean as much

Sorry one love, I thought I had responded there as well, but it all got swallowed up in the other issues, PG started a new thread, so it stuck out more.

Okay, now stay with me here folks.....watch the context!

I was trying to say that the SO alone is not the answer to your issues. If a man is a leader, he will lead. If he is NOT why does he continue to be moved. I never asked to be moved as an overseer. In every case, I asked to stay to be able to put good leadership principles in place.

It takes time to do that....but time alone tells the tale of the tape on leadership. A man can be in a state(or church) for years and years and just be a maintenance man. It happens all the time.

I was merely making a statement...based on experience ......that some of you have not had the privilege of having , that "just" a change of overseer will not make a difference. If you had a do nothing and you get another do nothing...,.you still have nothing.

Now, are there guys who can lead ? Yep...but generally at a price.

As for La., when I left, they combined that it with Miss. that year. Bro. Brisson was the overseer of Miss. and they gave him La. to go with it. It was the beginning of some trial states. Then in two years, they gave it to Malcolm Bersegay....his wife had been my state treasurer....great family...but they also placed him as pastor of Morgan City....down on the coast. That was NOT the church to put him in as it took him a long way from being central to the state. It was another trail effort. It obviously didn't work.

You may all feel free to include me in any way you feel. I can say that when I left ALL the numbers were up! The parsonage had been remodeled and new offices built....all paid for in cash. No mortgage of any kind. It is a beautiful place....I would hate to see it sold...but that is not my area.

So, keep it all in context dear folks. I wasn't trying to stir the pot, just to say that a change of men is not the total answer.

Pastor Gary wrote:In another thread I am unable to find right now, someone (not sure who) seemed to assert that it really didn't matter who was Overseer of this or that state.

I disagree. Totally.

Leadership matters. I can take you to states that had once vital, strong local churches now decimated by poor leadership, and to states once flush with financial resources that have been bled dry by greedy leaders... states that were once giving and encouraging places but are now beaten down and demoralized because of ineffective leadership. And I can take you to areas where the churches are flourishing, growing and reproducing because of visionary, empowering leadership.

Leadership matters.

Excellent. Great Post

Dr. Ron wrote:You may all feel free to include me in any way you feel. I can say that when I left ALL the numbers were up! The parsonage had been remodeled and new offices built....all paid for in cash. No mortgage of any kind. It is a beautiful place....I would hate to see it sold...but that is not my area.

That's why I didn't include you in that group!