Jude 2

It looks as if Obama will be our next president. The further lurtch toward socialism is set. What makes this disappointing is the willful yielding of liberty to the Federal Government. I guess the freedom given us by the blood of patriots is not sacred to some.

Or perhaps I am hurt by tonight's results. Either way, God bless America.

A quote came to my mind last night as I watched the celebrations in Chicago......

"So this is how liberty dies: With thunderous applause." Padme Amidala

SBW wrote:A quote came to my mind last night as I watched the celebrations in Chicago......

"So this is how liberty dies: With thunderous applause." Padme Amidala

WOW!!!

soulsearcher wrote:

SBW wrote:A quote came to my mind last night as I watched the celebrations in Chicago......

"So this is how liberty dies: With thunderous applause." Padme Amidala

WOW!!!

I second that WOW!!

I thought our liberty and freedom was established by being 'in Christ' - not by the policies of our government.

Hey.....I added a "wink" to lighten the mood a little.

The quote just crossed my mind.....I am going to go on living life as normal....we survived the Clinton's didn't we?

SBW wrote:Hey.....I added a "wink" to lighten the mood a little.

The quote just crossed my mind.....I am going to go on living life as normal....we survived the Clinton's didn't we?

It was an interesting quote.

irthnvesl wrote:I thought our liberty and freedom was established by being 'in Christ' - not by the policies of our government.

Two seperate issues.

People around the world, reguardless of the political system which they must endure or enjoy, have freedom and liberty that can only be found in Christ, freedom from sin and the liberty of a new life.

The concept of liberty that I wrote about, are the classical liberal freedoms (or liberties) that we have in the United States, but are not necessarily enjoyed by our brothers and sisters in repressive countries. These liberties, which do endeed flow from God, where fought for by patriots past and present, and enumerated within the social contract between the people and our government.

valley wrote:

irthnvesl wrote:I thought our liberty and freedom was established by being 'in Christ' - not by the policies of our government.

Two seperate issues.

People around the world, reguardless of the political system which they must endure or enjoy, have freedom and liberty that can only be found in Christ, freedom from sin and the liberty of a new life.

The concept of liberty that I wrote about, are the classical liberal freedoms (or liberties) that we have in the United States, but are not necessarily enjoyed by our brothers and sisters in repressive countries. These liberties, which do endeed flow from God, where fought for by patriots past and present, and enumerated within the social contract between the people and our government.

Valley,

They do indeed flow from God. As I read Paul, God has ordained the government to give order to society which would include preserving and protecting our liberties. But I don't think that their abrogation of this responsibility affects our freedom at all. Were it possible for Obama or anyone else to ban Christianity, would you stop worshipping? I don't think you would. I know I wouldn't.

Jesus was concerned with freedom from sin. He advocated treating the Roman oppressors with kindness. Not that I take our liberties for granted. In fact, I served four years in the infantry feeling that, as one who experiences the benefits of freedom, it was my obligation to this nation.

I voted for McCain. Not because I believe that he, as opposed to Obama, will uphold our freedom but because Obama supports the murder of children. I am curious though, which freedoms to you believe are at stake under Obama that were not at stake under McCain?

irthnvesl wrote: I am curious though, which freedoms to you believe are at stake under Obama that were not at stake under McCain?

Mind if I take a stab at that one?

Let's start with the FIRST Amendment: Whether you like or dislike the Rush Limbaugh. Glenn Beck, Michael Savage genre of talk radio, it is a shining example to the world of the freedom of speech guaranteed under the first amendment. If the new Dem machine follows through with their expressed desire to reimpose the oh-so-ironically-named "Fairness Doctrine" they do so with the objective of silencing the voice of their opposition. Nobody is stopping stations from airing the liberal perspective now; the problem for liberals is (a) their attempts have been universally unsuccessful, and (b) their constituency doesn't listen to talk radio, with the possible exception of NPR's "All Things (to the Left) Considered."

Pastor Gary,

Thanks for that answer. The question was asked sincerely as I don't pay much attention to politics. My comment was not to disregard the importance of the personal freedoms we enjoy, only to point to the higher aspect of freedom and liberty that we, as Christians, should be focussed on (again, not to the neglect of personal freedoms enjoyed under the U.S. Contitution).

irthnvesl wrote:Pastor Gary,

Thanks for that answer. The question was asked sincerely as I don't pay much attention to politics. My comment was not to disregard the importance of the personal freedoms we enjoy, only to point to the higher aspect of freedom and liberty that we, as Christians, should be focussed on (again, not to the neglect of personal freedoms enjoyed under the U.S. Contitution).

No problem. I am not one of those with the razors out to slash wrists over the election results. I am glad to live in a nation in which democratic elections still take place, power transfers gracefully and peacefully, and I had a chance to cast my dissenting ballot. That being said, I have some serious reservations about a few of the things I anticipate in the O44 administration.

The Fairness Doctrine, increased restrictions on private ownership and use of weapons, a Clintonesque reduction in our military forces and defense capabilities, the expansion of the entitlement-mentality and cradle-to-grave European-style nanny-state... and so much more. These are the classic Democratic Party positions and policies with which I take issue.

I will, as always, be a loyal citizen, will pray for my President, and will attempt to be a voice of loyal opposition, pointing out when the emperor has no clothes.

To quote a text message that my son sent to every one in his phone book a little while ago

"We have a new president-elect today, but the KING is still on the Throne."

I read an interesting article on Tim Elston's blog about wealth redistribution. I am no economist but I don't doubt his assertion that wealth redistribution flows in more than one direction, both upwards, and downwards. I question if the Republican's charicterization of wealth redistribution in this country is accurate.

While realizing the danger of being a conspiracy theorist, I have become convinced over time that the stock market serves as a wealth redistribution system, shifting wealth from the lower and middle class, to the upper class. I have seen the retirement funds of many of my friends and associates disappear before their eyes while the CEO's of various corporations walk away with millions, if not billions.

I have seen and am familiar with the whole 'entitlement attitude'. But we also have to be careful not to paint with too broad a brush. It's easy to pick out a class or race and depict them as evil while ignoring the evil thread that runs through ourselves (I'm not suggesting that you are doing that). I hope that my loyalty to Jesus transcends national, political, and racial lines. I think we have to be careful in too closely relating to one or other of the two major political parties on offer.

irthnvesl wrote:I have seen and am familiar with the whole 'entitlement attitude'. But we also have to be careful not to paint with too broad a brush. It's easy to pick out a class or race and depict them as evil while ignoring the evil thread that runs through ourselves (I'm not suggesting that you are doing that). I hope that my loyalty to Jesus transcends national, political, and racial lines. I think we have to be careful in too closely relating to one or other of the two major political parties on offer.

The entitlement mentality is not racial at all, and thanks for noting that I am not doing that. It is a mindset my dear old departed Daddy warned me against all his life with folksie Southernisms like "Son, the world don't owe you a living!"

You and I both know people who just think that regardless of their effort, preparation, lack of education, innate abilities or other factors, they are entitled to the trappings success and accomplishment of those who have achieved more than they have.

I know that there are smarter people than me... people who have risked more, invested more... people who have worked harder... people who have been in the right place at the right time and pounced upon opportunities I never had -- they have more than me, and I don't think I am entitled to what they have.