SO I will not hijack another thread... here goes

[TC]

Tim I rarely call someones name is a post, but you sir need to learn some manners and common respect. I was taught that if you have nothing good to say then you keep your pie hole shut, or at least fill it so you don't say something you should not have. (Well that may be the reason I need to lose weight but that is another rant )

You have hijacked D's thread and made it all about you and your thoughts. Yes there is a place for them and that is in a NEW thread. D posted that for many people like me that would not have known this. I think he did it to INFORM the rest of us. D thank you for that.

Tim I guess you didn't read what was written on the page or listen to the song or if you did you just did not comprehend. Did you hear the words of the song? This is what was written by SCC and why he wrote the song.

Good Bye. Mr. President.

Whether you voted for him & love him, or you’ve disagreed with all his policies and dislike him... Could we all agree on this? We owe President Bush a sincere thank you. As the historic Inauguration of President Elect Barack Obama approaches, StevenCurtisChapman.com pauses to thank our outgoing President for his service to our great country. This Thanksgiving weekend, we hope you’ll enjoy a new song by Steven written in President Bush’s honor.

If I recall correctly you are or were in the service, Time and time again I hear people say to those who served "thank you for your service" agree or disagree in what way they served but they served. George W Bush served this country and deserves respect as a holder of that office. I have met 4 Presidents in my life, (2 while in office) 2 before they were elected and 2 VP's (Bush Sr is an overlap) I met the best president in my Life time Ron Reagan, and the two worst Clinton and Carter, the worst VP in Al Gore. Now I would not walk across the street to shake hands with any of the last three, I do respect them for making that sacrafice in putting their love for their country into action. It does not matter what they did, I do not think any of them did anything that they thought could harm the country. Their views were not the same as mine but it is called an election the majority of voting america voted for them so they have the right to try and make this country better. It is the called power of the vote.

I thank members of our armed forces for their service as well as those who chase the bad guy, and those who run into a fire, those who put their life in danger on a daily basis. They do this so we don't have to. You have to agree with that, right? Well what do you think GWB has done, he is on call 24/7 since the day he was elected. THere have people and nations who would love for him to have been killed. When I worked EMS I felt that when I was working, It was my duty to take care of the people in my city. Well he has a full nation to take care of, when we were attacked on 911 there is no way anyone can truthfully say he did not "feel our pain" even if he didn't say it. He has carried the world on his shoulders for almost 8 years and he as well as the office deserves respect for that as well as a simple thankyou.

Over the past 7+ years all we have heard is how evil this man is, how stupid he is, he is a drunk, stole the election, got us into a war over oil for his oil buddies, that there never were any WMD's. Such poor losers on your side there, YET now we get the rodney king brand of politics. The can't we all get along brand. I am not saying BO is the anitchrist but he very well could be, people are following him like his is the savior, he is wolf in sheep clothing. He has proven over and over he will say anthing to get elected and get power, He might very well be the antichrist, I don't know, I know Christ and that is what I need to worry about.

When I was a kid and did not do as taught, I got aquainted with a switch or a belt. I understand some peple were just not taught anybetter. Not sure where you fit in. but so that I can do as I was taught, an not end up on the wrong side of God's Switch, I will [pray God will open your eyes, but at a min I will pray that God will at least teach you some repsect and common courtesy

So for you Tim, I will make that short walk to the frig.

[EagerBeaver]

AMEN

[Tim Elston]

Tim I rarely call someones name is a post, but you sir need to learn some manners and common respect.

TC, I read your post closely, so I ask that you read mine closely. I first want to thank you for expressing your thoughts forthrightly. I like direct communication like that. Harboring resentment or talking about people behind their backs is not productive, but airing out grievances constructively is beneficial, and I believe that you did that. Thank you.

I want to forewarn you that what I am going to say will indicate that my analysis results in a rather critical assessment of your post. That doesn't mean that I don't appreciate it. I do appreciate your effort to communicate respectfully and candidly, and I want to communicate that way in return.

I think that your criticism stems from an offensiveness that you find with my beliefs, not from my conduct per se. I have several points to make in that regard.

I would like to ask you to go back and look at the thread that you say I hijacked and that you say I made about me. I made a comment that was essentially a political statement about the song. My post was about the song. Then two people came onto the thread and made me the subject of their posts, because they presumably didn't like my political statement. As far as I can tell, my comment about the song was not hijacking the thread. I think it is fair game to post a disapproving statement about the thread topic. If it's not then I'm certainly not the only one who does it. It is a common, even regular, occurrence. But the thread was about a political song, and my posts were political responses to the subject of the song.

My rebuttals to my detractors' posts got back on topic. They were statements about President Bush, and that was the topic of the thread. The thread topic was about thanking President Bush, and the song mentioned disagreement with him, and since I don't think that a song of appreciation is appropriate to the record of this president without a song of disapprobation, I elaborated my reasons in response to the detractors who made me, rather than the political topic, the subject of their posts.

This gets to what I perceive to be the actual crux of the matter: You are offended by my disapproval of President Bush. You mentioned that I should show respect to the President, but let me ask you: Have you ever written a post to people who were disrespecting Barack Obama or Bill Clinton or Jimmy Carter, telling them that they should not show disapproval of them? Have you ever felt the same way toward those posts as you do about posts that criticize President Bush? Have you ever written disrespectfully of Obama, Clinton, or Carter yourself? How do you feel when you read or write posts critical of them, in contrast to how you feel when you read posts critical of GWB? It is my estimation that your criticism of me is a reaction stemming from those feelings; otherwise, you would write similar reprimands, or feel like doing so, to those who criticize the presidencies of Clinton and Carter and the anticipated presidency of Obama.

What constitutes disrespect? Disapproval of a president's policies? Why is it wrong for me to show disdain for President Bush's politics--which will tend to bleed over into disrespect for Bush himself from time to time; but that didn't happen in the thread in question--but it is not wrong for others to deride Obama or Clinton for their politics? Why, in fact, does your post not include a reprimand of Dr. Ron and jinjer, for example, for their disrespect for President-Elect Obama, if the real issue is respect? No, I perceive that the real issue for you is that you are offended by my criticism of George Bush, and you filter that offense, understandably, as a perception that I am guilty of ettiquete infractions so abnormal that they deserve calling out.

I cannot say that I do not understand those who are offended at criticism of President Bush, because I do understand it. But I do not empathize with it. I will never empathize with the notion that Presidents are beyond criticism. I have noticed that the people who take offense to such criticism apply the principle only to the presidents of their partisan preference. When presidents of their partisan disdain arise, somehow the principle doesn't apply. I have no respect whatsoever for this kind of partisan respect of persons.

Lastly, if you were on a liberal board--and maybe you are at other HTTP domains--and you regularly expressed your criticisms of Obama or Clinton on that board, rest assured that Democratic partisans would respond to your posts in such a way as to make the thread about you, rather than about the substance of your criticisms of Obama or Clinton. Is it lost on you that, for example, you made this thread about me? I did not make it about me; you did. You were good to start a new thread, but you nonetheless made it about me. You did not make it about the points of criticism I raised.

This happened to me frequently when I was on Jude2 previously. I would post my substantive criticisms of the Bush administration; then people would post their criticisms of me; then I would respond to their criticisms of me; then someone would accuse me of making the thread about myself. I'll admit, that makes me angry. But you know what? Tim "dolfan" Shelton has never turned my substantive criticisms into threads about me. Never. I ask you to watch him. He always addresses my points; he never succumbs to the ad hominem temptation to oppose my points by turning me into the subject of the argument. I wish everyone who is tempted to accuse me of turning threads into threads about me would take a lesson from him. I don't expect them to do that, but I can wish.

TC, thanks again for expressing yourself candidly and with a sincere wish to communicate constructively. I hope you perceive that I have sought to do the same. The bottom line for me is that I cannot let your partisan preference for President Bush dictate a gag rule on my criticism of him. I will continue to criticize him for the things for which I believe he deserves criticism, and I will continue to react with opposition to partisan comments, as I wish, hopefully with no greater drama or fight than is customary coming from many other directions here.

But I think your reminder not to hijack threads is legitimate, and even though I did not hijack the thread you say I did, I will certainly seek to abide by the principle.

[Tim Elston]

TC, I read your post closely, so I ask that you read mine closely...

[TC]

TC, I read your post closely, so I ask that you read mine closely...

first do you always feel the need to reply to your own comments?
and
seond do you always feel the need applaud your own comments?

[TC]

OK for everyone sorry this is so very very long...

TC, I read your post closely, so I ask that you read mine closely. I first want to thank you for expressing your thoughts forthrightly. I like direct communication like that. Harboring resentment or talking about people behind their backs is not productive, but airing out grievances constructively is beneficial, and I believe that you did that. Thank you.

OK I am sure I have not always been this way but I do my best not to talk behind some ones back. Resentment is not in my makeup anylonger

I want to forewarn you that what I am going to say will indicate that my analysis results in a rather critical assessment of your post. That doesn't mean that I don't appreciate it. I do appreciate your effort to communicate respectfully and candidly, and I want to communicate that way in return.


I think that your criticism stems from an offensiveness that you find with my beliefs, not from my conduct per se. I have several points to make in that regard.

No sir I guess you did not read my post or I did not state it well, I did not read but the first two of your post, Why? Because is was not about the topic. I guess I did read some of them somewhat because I read how you were quoted. But then my scan feature kicked and if it wasn’t about the song. I skimmed on thru.

I would like to ask you to go back and look at the thread that you say I hijacked and that you say I made about me. I made a comment that was essentially a political statement about the song. My post was about the song. Then two people came onto the thread and made me the subject of their posts, because they presumably didn't like my political statement. As far as I can tell, my comment about the song was not hijacking the thread. I think it is fair game to post a disapproving statement about the thread topic. If it's not then I'm certainly not the only one who does it. It is a common, even regular, occurrence. But the thread was about a political song, and my posts were political responses to the subject of the song.



Your comment was Cool. I'd buy that one if Steven would also write, "No Thank You, Mr. President," to make the collection complete.

Yes it is a simple statement but it spoke volumes.

Why because, one it tells me you didn’t read his comments on the page before the song, because if you have you would have seen he was saying thank you for your Service Mr President. No political statement just thank you for trying to do your best.

And 2 it tells me you didn’t really listen to the song because, he did not say, thank you for Appointing the right judges or thank you for stopping the evil democrats. It was a simple thank you for your service, thank you for being up those long hours, staying up late getting up early and putting the country above your personal life. So if you listened to the song are you actually saying, I don’t appreciate you not spending time with your daughters and wife but sitting in a long meeting about protecting our country. I don’t appreciate you seeking justice for those who lost their lives on 911, I don’t appreciate any of the sacrifices you made on a personal level, so that our country might be better. Do you really feel that way? As I said I totally disagreed with Clinton, I respect him for the sacrifices he made, but I can still despise him for his lack of personal ethics, for his lack of personal strength to be able to keep his pants zipped for the 8 years he was in office. I can totally despise him for his brazen disrespect for the office of the most powerful man in the world that he would care more for his personal gratification and satisfaction the honoring the office which he was elected. And that does not even go into my political beliefs in which we disagree. IS that what you really think? That is what you are saying. NO THANK YOU for your sacrifices and your service. Not sure if that was your intent but that was your result.

My rebuttals to my detractors' posts got back on topic. They were statements about President Bush, and that was the topic of the thread.

Again no they were not about the thread topic they were about your comment of the thread two totally different things

"The thread topic was about thanking President Bush, and the song mentioned disagreement with him"

I would love to hear where it is a disagreement with him. I guess I missed that in my many times listening to find that. Please quote it so I can see my error. Here are the lyrics where did you hear this

Good bye Mr President
I guess the time has come, for you to pack up all your things and turn the page
So I was thinking as you left, I’d try to write a song and tell you what so many of us want to say.

For all the sleepless nights you, I sure you must have had
For all the prayers I’m sure you prayed.
And for how you tried to lead us
When the way was so unclear
I’m sure it wasn’t always evident
But thank you Mr. President

Goodbye Mr. President
It will not be forgotten All the courage and the hope you helped us find
I can’t imagine how it felt, to stand where you were standing
and to try and make the calls you thought were right

so For those sleepless nights I sure you must have had
To put those lines around your eyes
For how you carried the weight
Even when the lights went out
I’m sure you’ll never know how much it ment
But thank you Mr President

So for those days ahead, when they write about the past
And everybody has their say
From all of us who know
You gave us everything you could
We hope you will remember this
Thank you Mr. President
Goodbye Mr President.



and since I don't think that a song of appreciation is appropriate to the record of this president without a song of disapprobation, I elaborated my reasons in response to the detractors who made me, rather than the political topic, the subject of their posts. Whether you realize it or not you have just proven my point,

No sir you just proved my point, you made a simple post about song and turned it into a political statement. Had you started a new political post about it then you might have gotten the same replies but you would not have hijacked the other thread. You still refuse to see that, you took a thread and made it all about you and your hate for GW Bush



This gets to what I perceive to be the actual crux of the matter: You are offended by my disapproval of President Bush. You mentioned that I should show respect to the President, but let me ask you: Have you ever written a post to people who were disrespecting Barack Obama or Bill Clinton or Jimmy Carter, telling them that they should not show disapproval of them? Have you ever felt the same way toward those posts as you do about posts that criticize President Bush? Have you ever written disrespectfully of Obama, Clinton, or Carter yourself? How do you feel when you read or write posts critical of them, in contrast to how you feel when you read posts critical of GWB? It is my estimation that your criticism of me is a reaction stemming from those feelings; otherwise, you would write similar reprimands, or feel like doing so, to those who criticize the presidencies of Clinton and Carter and the anticipated presidency of Obama.

Again you are making this is about what YOU think, You are trying to tell me what bothered me about the thread. When in fact if you read my post I made myself very clear about what bothered me. There is a time and a place for everything. The problem is the loonies on your side don’t realize that. We are supposed to be “civil” now that your guy is elected, but your side can not be civil no matter what. It is the same thing that happens all the time, the liberals say let’s be civil and out of the other side spew their hate over and over. I still think that your replies were you just a show of disrespect and shows how crazy the loonies on your side have gone. GW Bush has had unprecedented attacks on his character, on his policies as well as every part of this administration. And your comments are just another swing at him, in spite of the “we need to be more civil” by the left. There is nothing that I have seen written about Obama or Clinton ever that is one tenth the hatred of GW Bush.

What constitutes disrespect? Disapproval of a president's policies? Why is it wrong for me to show disdain for President Bush's politics--which will tend to bleed over into disrespect for Bush himself from time to time; but that didn't happen in the thread in question--but it is not wrong for others to deride Obama or Clinton for their politics? Why, in fact, does your post not include a reprimand of Dr. Ron and jinjer, for example, for their disrespect for President-Elect Obama, if the real issue is respect? No, I perceive that the real issue for you is that you are offended by my criticism of George Bush, and you filter that offense, understandably, as a perception that I am guilty of ettiquete infractions so abnormal that they deserve calling out.

There is none so blind as those who refuse to see, AGAIN this was not about policies, even your original post wild hit and run comment and then you tried to back it up. I don’t give a flip about your disdain for anything, but at least be honest, you may not like his polices but your disdain is for the man and the leaking is going the other way. Disapprove all you want but you need to be careful, because you guys have set the bar on how a president is treated and it might come back to bite you. Again you hijacked the topic and other were not replying to the original topic because you made it about you and your view. You are like every liberal I have ever met, you think you are so much more insightful than others. So insightful that you can tell what I really intended to say, or that there are other reasons for my post. Your perception of things is all the matters. Had you posted your “thoughts” on polices in another post, I would not have seen them because I would have read one line and ignored the rest of the thread. You are never going to change my views of this president or of his polices, (the ones I liked and disliked) you are never going to change my views of the Clintons, Carter or even Obama, And I don’t want to waste my time talking to you because you are not going to change your views.

I cannot say that I do not understand those who are offended at criticism of President Bush, because I do understand it. But I do not empathize with it. I will never empathize with the notion that Presidents are beyond criticism. I have noticed that the people who take offense to such criticism apply the principle only to the presidents of their partisan preference. When presidents of their partisan disdain arise, somehow the principle doesn't apply. I have no respect whatsoever for this kind of partisan respect of persons.

There is a time and a place for everything, this was not the time or the place for your comments. It would be in a new thread where the title informed the readers what they were getting into. It is a problem with the left, they just don’t know that there is a time to be beyond politics. I have such disdain for the way the liberals used the Paul Wellstone funeral as a political rally, how they use a fund raiser for disaster relief to throw in a “bush hates black people” FYI, not sure if you intend it or not or even if you see it or not but your “partisan preference” shows thru on your criticism. Your comments about why didn’t I say anything about comments about Obama or Clinton, in this post you act the third grader that when caught saying something bad, and your only reply is well Johnny did it.

Lastly, if you were on a liberal board--and maybe you are at other HTTP domains--and you regularly expressed your criticisms of Obama or Clinton on that board, rest assured that Democratic partisans would respond to your posts in such a way as to make the thread about you, rather than about the substance of your criticisms of Obama or Clinton. Is it lost on you that, for example, you made this thread about me? I did not make it about me; you did. You were good to start a new thread, but you nonetheless made it about me. You did not make it about the points of criticism I raised.

Again None so blind… I told you about you should have started a new post, Why you should have started a new post. It was a post informing of a song, you took it to make a political statement. Sorry dude like it or not you hijacked the thread. Yes this thread is about YOU… I started the thread, it was about you, and how hijacked the thread to spew your beliefs. I am sure you can read but you really need to work on your comprehension. Again I did not make it about the points you raised because I did not read the points YOU RAISED, it was about a song, that is why I read the thread.

This happened to me frequently when I was on Jude2 previously. I would post my substantive criticisms of the Bush administration; then people would post their criticisms of me; then I would respond to their criticisms of me; then someone would accuse me of making the thread about myself. I'll admit, that makes me angry. But you know what? Tim "dolfan" Shelton has never turned my substantive criticisms into threads about me. Never. I ask you to watch him. He always addresses my points; he never succumbs to the ad hominem temptation to oppose my points by turning me into the subject of the argument. I wish everyone who is tempted to accuse me of turning threads into threads about me would take a lesson from him. I don't expect them to do that, but I can wish.

Dude, have you ever thought that if this is happening over and over, that it might just be you? I have seen you read with filters on your eyes, you read it as you want, you believe it to be a personal attack. Well some might be but it might just be your communication skills. I have gone over every paragraph and tried to reply to them one by one.


TC, thanks again for expressing yourself candidly and with a sincere wish to communicate constructively. I hope you perceive that I have sought to do the same. The bottom line for me is that I cannot let your partisan preference for President Bush dictate a gag rule on my criticism of him. I will continue to criticize him for the things for which I believe he deserves criticism, and I will continue to react with opposition to partisan comments, as I wish, hopefully with no greater drama or fight than is customary coming from many other directions here.

Bottom line is NO ONE has place a gag rule on you, or your partisan preference against George Bush. Your hated is just that hatred of the man it can be seen over and over in your post. If you got past that hatred then maybe more people would be able to see your views as you would like. Why do I say hatred, because your comments about this song totally proves it. You took something you did not really listen to or read the comments made from SCC about it. You took it and used it to take a cheap shot at someone you hate.

Dude, take the time to really listen to the song, read the words over and over. Why because if you really did you could see that this song could be song to every president. As much as I hate Carter, his polices and his actions since leaving office, it could be sung about him. as much as I am disgusted by the lack of personal character and well as business ethics of Clinton it can be sung about him. As much as I disagreed with GW Bush on way too many issues for my liking, it can be sung about him. As well as much as I loved Ron Reagan it can be sung about him. Who knows if the same can be said in four years as we are getting our new president about Obama, but I believe he will spend many sleepless nights trying to do what he things is best. I have a feeling I will totally disagree with what he things is best, but I don’t think any president has ever done something to intentionally hurt the country. They all honestly think they are doing what they feel is best.

But I think your reminder not to hijack threads is legitimate, and even though I did not hijack the thread you say I did, I will certainly seek to abide by the principle.

Again you refuse to see that is your first comment was a complete lack of respect for the sacrifices of the man serving as president. Your first post proves you didn’t really listen to the words of the song and used it take a jab. “Cool. I'd buy that one if Steven would also write, "No Thank You, Mr. President," to make the collection complete” at least have the stones enough to admit it you were trying to be funny by taking a jab. When it went over like a lead balloon you tried to cover your six. If your comment was said about this song and it was about a president you liked I think you might see it without your blinders. If this song has been written for Obama by Kanye West, you would have loved it. But it was written by a Christian as a Republican president is leaving office. Again Proof of that is this song could be sang about almost every president.

What totally gets me is you still fail to see anything other than you want to see. I posted about your hijacking the thread and why how you did it was disrespectful, here is what you say “But I think your reminder not to hijack threads is legitimate” I did not write all this as a reminder for you, Your comment were Disrespectful and hijacked the thread. That is why I did this

[Tim Elston]

first do you always feel the need to reply to your own comments?
and
seond do you always feel the need applaud your own comments?

Not everyone gets my sense of humor. But I think it's funny. I usually express it at some risk.

[Tim Elston]

Your comment was Cool.

Thanks for saying that.

Yes it is a simple statement but it spoke volumes.

Yes.

Why because, one it tells me you didn’t read his comments on the page before the song

You're right, I didn't read the comments or listen to the song. The title evoked my response. The title implied the contents.

because if you have you would have seen he was saying thank you for your Service Mr President.

That's pretty much what I would expect in a song by that title.

No political statement just thank you for trying to do your best.

Yes, it's political.

And 2 it tells me you didn’t really listen to the song because, he did not say, thank you for Appointing the right judges or thank you for stopping the evil democrats. It was a simple thank you for your service, thank you for being up those long hours, staying up late getting up early and putting the country above your personal life. So if you listened to the song are you actually saying, I don’t appreciate you not spending time with your daughters and wife but sitting in a long meeting about protecting our country. I don’t appreciate you seeking justice for those who lost their lives on 911, I don’t appreciate any of the sacrifices you made on a personal level, so that our country might be better. Do you really feel that way?

Now that I've read the words of the song, I like it. I do appreciate the good things President Bush has done. I can say the same thing about Clinton, Bush I, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Truman, FDR (I can't get them in order beyond that, and I've probably missed one), and I'll be able to say that about Obama. But GWB and Johnson rank as the two worst presidents of my lifetime, and even though I can see that Bush in some sense meant well, I can also see that in some sense he didn't, and that some of his most critical policy decisions have been crippling and disastrous on a number of fundamental levels. For that reason, I think that a song entitled "No Thank You, Mr. President" would be more than fitting. As far as feelings about him, I waffle between anger at, pity for, and forgiveness of him, depending on which of his deeds I'm thinking about.

As I said I totally disagreed with Clinton, I respect him for the sacrifices he made, but I can still despise him for his lack of personal ethics, for his lack of personal strength to be able to keep his pants zipped for the 8 years he was in office. I can totally despise him for his brazen disrespect for the office of the most powerful man in the world that he would care more for his personal gratification and satisfaction the honoring the office which he was elected. And that does not even go into my political beliefs in which we disagree. IS that what you really think? That is what you are saying. NO THANK YOU for your sacrifices and your service. Not sure if that was your intent but that was your result.

I feel the same way about Clinton as you do. I can't stand him as a person, and I despise his abuse of power against women and the contempt for the oath of his office when he lied under oath. I can see a nice matching set for him, too: "Thank you, Mr. Clinton," and, "Now Get Lost, Mr. Clinton."

There is a time and a place for everything. The problem is the loonies on your side don’t realize that. We are supposed to be “civil” now that your guy is elected, but your side can not be civil no matter what.

I voted for Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution Party, but only because Ron Paul, my preference, endorsed him. I couldn't vote for either McCain or Obama.

GW Bush has had unprecedented attacks on his character, on his policies as well as every part of this administration. And your comments are just another swing at him

I outlined my criticisms of him. They are based on my assessments of the facts. I have the right to criticize my leaders for their failures and misdeeds. So do you.

There is nothing that I have seen written about Obama or Clinton ever that is one tenth the hatred of GW Bush.

You must not have been reading that-other-forum-that-shall-remain-nameless in the 1990s.

There is none so blind as those who refuse to see, AGAIN this was not about policies, even your original post wild hit and run comment and then you tried to back it up. I don’t give a flip about your disdain for anything, but at least be honest, you may not like his polices but your disdain is for the man and the leaking is going the other way. Disapprove all you want but you need to be careful, because you guys have set the bar on how a president is treated and it might come back to bite you. Again you hijacked the topic and other were not replying to the original topic because you made it about you and your view. You are like every liberal I have ever met, you think you are so much more insightful than others. So insightful that you can tell what I really intended to say, or that there are other reasons for my post. Your perception of things is all the matters. Had you posted your “thoughts” on polices in another post, I would not have seen them because I would have read one line and ignored the rest of the thread. You are never going to change my views of this president or of his polices, (the ones I liked and disliked) you are never going to change my views of the Clintons, Carter or even Obama, And I don’t want to waste my time talking to you because you are not going to change your views. ...

I'm sure you are a nice man.

I have gone over every paragraph and tried to reply to them one by one.

Thank you for your time. I appreciate your efforts.

this song could be song to every president. As much as I hate Carter, his polices and his actions since leaving office, it could be sung about him. as much as I am disgusted by the lack of personal character and well as business ethics of Clinton it can be sung about him. As much as I disagreed with GW Bush on way too many issues for my liking, it can be sung about him. As well as much as I loved Ron Reagan it can be sung about him. Who knows if the same can be said in four years as we are getting our new president about Obama, but I believe he will spend many sleepless nights trying to do what he things is best.

I agree. I also think that Americans should hold protest and impeachment out as proper responses to the abuse of political power.

Again you refuse to see that is your first comment was a complete lack of respect for the sacrifices of the man serving as president.

Actually, it was a completely proper disrespect for his abuse of presidential power. I knew exactly what I was doing.

at least have the stones enough to admit it you were trying to be funny by taking a jab.

I admit it. Wanna see 'em?

When it went over like a lead balloon you tried to cover your six.

I got a PM from someone saying how funny it was. I'm not sure what you mean by trying to cover anything. That may be your impression, but I reiterate, President Bush needs that other song.

If your comment was said about this song and it was about a president you liked I think you might see it without your blinders. If this song has been written for Obama by Kanye West, you would have loved it. But it was written by a Christian as a Republican president is leaving office.

Of the four presidents of my adulthood, I've despised two by the end of their terms: George W. Bush and Bill Clinton. I wouldn't have felt the need for a "No Thank You" song for either George H. W. Bush or Ronald Reagan. I have no idea yet how I'll feel about Obama by the end of his. It all depends on what he doesn't do. I don't know who Kanye West is.

[Russell Roberts]

I loved Reagan. Always will. He made us feel good about this country. He had a rare gift.

[TC]

Your comment was Cool.

Thanks for saying that.... that was YOUR comment, i just repeated your first post, I guess again it is your humor, read your own quote and say i said it.

Yes it is a simple statement but it spoke volumes.

Yes. the sad thing is you are proud of that...

Why because, one it tells me you didn’t read his comments on the page before the song

You're right, I didn't read the comments or listen to the song. The title evoked my response. The title implied the contents. you are a true liberal, don't care for the facts, just to a conclusion and then blame others when called on it.

because if you have you would have seen he was saying thank you for your Service Mr President.

That's pretty much what I would expect in a song by that title. well that is not the way you wrote your crazy post or your defence of it to me... that is just sad, you say that now and it makes you look like an idiot for the things you said and the limit you took this to.

No political statement just thank you for trying to do your best.

Yes, it's political.... YOU CAN SAY IT ALL YOU WANT BUT IT IS NOT TRUE. YOU ARE NOT GEORGE CONSTANSA, IT IS NOT THE TRUTH IT YOU BELIEVE IT... (yes i was yelling)

And 2 it tells me you didn’t really listen to the song because, he did not say, thank you for Appointing the right judges or thank you for stopping the evil democrats. It was a simple thank you for your service, thank you for being up those long hours, staying up late getting up early and putting the country above your personal life. So if you listened to the song are you actually saying, I don’t appreciate you not spending time with your daughters and wife but sitting in a long meeting about protecting our country. I don’t appreciate you seeking justice for those who lost their lives on 911, I don’t appreciate any of the sacrifices you made on a personal level, so that our country might be better. Do you really feel that way?

Now that I've read the words of the song, I like it. I do appreciate the good things President Bush has done. I can say the same thing about Clinton, Bush I, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Truman, FDR (I can't get them in order beyond that, and I've probably missed one), and I'll be able to say that about Obama. But GWB and Johnson rank as the two worst presidents of my lifetime, and even though I can see that Bush in some sense meant well, I can also see that in some sense he didn't, and that some of his most critical policy decisions have been crippling and disastrous on a number of fundamental levels. For that reason, I think that a song entitled "No Thank You, Mr. President" would be more than fitting. As far as feelings about him, I waffle between anger at, pity for, and forgiveness of him, depending on which of his deeds I'm thinking about.

You are stuck on stupid, you admit something but you got to go back to an idiotic, uninformed statment. BTW the worst president in modern history was and will be (because no matter what BO does he will forever be a god to the main street media)Clinton, things were so bad in his four years they made new words becasue the old were just not close to how bad he made it.

As I said I totally disagreed with Clinton, I respect him for the sacrifices he made, but I can still despise him for his lack of personal ethics, for his lack of personal strength to be able to keep his pants zipped for the 8 years he was in office. I can totally despise him for his brazen disrespect for the office of the most powerful man in the world that he would care more for his personal gratification and satisfaction the honoring the office which he was elected. And that does not even go into my political beliefs in which we disagree. IS that what you really think? That is what you are saying. NO THANK YOU for your sacrifices and your service. Not sure if that was your intent but that was your result.

I feel the same way about Clinton as you do. I can't stand him as a person, and I despise his abuse of power against women and the contempt for the oath of his office when he lied under oath. I can see a nice matching set for him, too: "Thank you, Mr. Clinton," and, "Now Get Lost, Mr. Clinton." for someone who feels the same I as do you defend him quite a lot.

There is a time and a place for everything. The problem is the loonies on your side don’t realize that. We are supposed to be “civil” now that your guy is elected, but your side can not be civil no matter what.

I voted for Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution Party, but only because Ron Paul, my preference, endorsed him. I couldn't vote for either McCain or Obama. You voted for Obama but you brain is so frozen you didn't realize it was a throw away vote for Obama. I hope you enjoyed wasting your time.

GW Bush has had unprecedented attacks on his character, on his policies as well as every part of this administration. And your comments are just another swing at him

I outlined my criticisms of him. They are based on my assessments of the facts. I have the right to criticize my leaders for their failures and misdeeds. So do you. You took a pot shot plain and simple, Now you are admitting the unprecedented attacks, you also have a right to be stupid and you are getting close to abusing that right.

There is nothing that I have seen written about Obama or Clinton ever that is one tenth the hatred of GW Bush.

You must not have been reading that-other-forum-that-shall-remain-nameless in the 1990s. YES I DID and it did not happen, you are streching it to say the least. BUT I was not talking about this board or any board, I was talking about all of the media. Not sure about you but I don't get my facts from people on boards.... wait that might explain your facts you get it from loonies on message boards....

There is none so blind as those who refuse to see, AGAIN this was not about policies, even your original post wild hit and run comment and then you tried to back it up. I don’t give a flip about your disdain for anything, but at least be honest, you may not like his polices but your disdain is for the man and the leaking is going the other way. Disapprove all you want but you need to be careful, because you guys have set the bar on how a president is treated and it might come back to bite you. Again you hijacked the topic and other were not replying to the original topic because you made it about you and your view. You are like every liberal I have ever met, you think you are so much more insightful than others. So insightful that you can tell what I really intended to say, or that there are other reasons for my post. Your perception of things is all the matters. Had you posted your “thoughts” on polices in another post, I would not have seen them because I would have read one line and ignored the rest of the thread. You are never going to change my views of this president or of his polices, (the ones I liked and disliked) you are never going to change my views of the Clintons, Carter or even Obama, And I don’t want to waste my time talking to you because you are not going to change your views. ...

I'm sure you are a nice man. That is up for debate

I have gone over every paragraph and tried to reply to them one by one.

Thank you for your time. I appreciate your efforts.

this song could be song to every president. As much as I hate Carter, his polices and his actions since leaving office, it could be sung about him. as much as I am disgusted by the lack of personal character and well as business ethics of Clinton it can be sung about him. As much as I disagreed with GW Bush on way too many issues for my liking, it can be sung about him. As well as much as I loved Ron Reagan it can be sung about him. Who knows if the same can be said in four years as we are getting our new president about Obama, but I believe he will spend many sleepless nights trying to do what he things is best.

I agree. I also think that Americans should hold protest and impeachment out as proper responses to the abuse of political power. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PROTEST... It is about proper time and place and you need to really work on that and your reading comp skills

Again you refuse to see that is your first comment was a complete lack of respect for the sacrifices of the man serving as president.

Actually, it was a completely proper disrespect for his abuse of presidential power. I knew exactly what I was doing. AND YOU WERE WRONG, DUDE you have a very hard head you still refuse to see you are totally wrong on how you went about this. DUDE you need help, more help than I am willing to give.

at least have the stones enough to admit it you were trying to be funny by taking a jab.

I admit it. Wanna see 'em? Well this is the first time you admitted it was a cheap shot at a joke, the thing you need to see now is people are not laughing with you they are laughing at you. You are not funny, your comments were totally out of line for the original post. you are just sad

When it went over like a lead balloon you tried to cover your six.

I got a PM from someone saying how funny it was. I'm not sure what you mean by trying to cover anything. That may be your impression, but I reiterate, President Bush needs that other song. HARD HEADED... you are totaly stuck, PM saying you are funny are just sad. You were trying to cover your butt, because you looked like one after your lame joke, btw it was just not my impression.

If your comment was said about this song and it was about a president you liked I think you might see it without your blinders. If this song has been written for Obama by Kanye West, you would have loved it. But it was written by a Christian as a Republican president is leaving office.

Of the four presidents of my adulthood, I've despised two by the end of their terms: George W. Bush and Bill Clinton. I wouldn't have felt the need for a "No Thank You" song for either George H. W. Bush or Ronald Reagan. I have no idea yet how I'll feel about Obama by the end of his. It all depends on what he doesn't do. I don't know who Kanye West is.

WELL you have already said over and over how you feel about obama, not to say you don't know how you feel either means you have totally lost it, or you have many people in your head talking to you or you just don't care about lying. One has to be a lie, what you said now or on the many other post.

I am not sure what to say about you, I don't know if I should be sad for you or what. There is only one other person who I think is just as clueless as you is Hillary Clinton. The whole world knew he cheated and she just could not see it,

This is my last thought on the issue. If you really hope to gain respect for your views you need to start thinking before you speak or type. I have to admit I have met some hard headed crazy thinking people, but you are on the top on that list.

[Jennifer Smith]

wow just scrolling that last post took me like ten minutes!

In a thread that's basically a two person conversation, it may not be necessary to post a great big quote box!










(Just trying to lighten things up a bit, you guys. )

[Tim Elston]

Just trying to lighten things up a bit, you guys.

Thanks, Jennifer. Threads like this tempt me to regress into a notion that the world is an irreconcilable dualism, after all. But then you jump in and jar me from that misery to remind me anew that this is a world of many colors, not two. And for that I am ever so thankful.

[Russell Roberts]

Tim, my brother, you can rest assured the world has many flavors of Christians. Some here don't like my flavor. Too bad for them. They can just stick to their monochrome world.