Jude 2

This whole invasion of Gaza thing and the reaction in western Europe strikes my curiosity. Nazism seems (and I mean "seems" and not "seemed") to be a western European trait. My question is "Why?" Why, in particular, is Europe so in favor of the Palestinians and so against Israel? Emotionally, psychologically, why is anti-Semitism so deep in the European conscience?

That isn't to say that it doesn't exist in other places. But, we don't see any big protests by Nigerians, Australians, Colombians or Canadians about the situation. The swell of anger is in Europe. Why?

Someone educate me.

Off subject a little , but if I hear this is Israels fault one more time because they are starving Palestine etc. I think I will be sick.

Europe's anti-Semitism is the same as the anti-Afrikaansism that reared it's ugly head so strongly there in the eighties.

dolfan wrote:This whole invasion of Gaza thing and the reaction in western Europe strikes my curiosity. Nazism seems (and I mean "seems" and not "seemed") to be a western European trait. My question is "Why?" Why, in particular, is Europe so in favor of the Palestinians and so against Israel? Emotionally, psychologically, why is anti-Semitism so deep in the European conscience?

That isn't to say that it doesn't exist in other places. But, we don't see any big protests by Nigerians, Australians, Colombians or Canadians about the situation. The swell of anger is in Europe. Why?

Someone educate me.

I don't think that opposing the Israeli policy towards the [Arabs] and being anti-Semitic are the same thing. There are many Israelis that oppose their country's policies and I doubt they are anti-Semites.

There may be some insight here

http://www.state.gov/p/eur/rls/rm/38113.htm

crispfin wrote:

dolfan wrote:This whole invasion of Gaza thing and the reaction in western Europe strikes my curiosity. Nazism seems (and I mean "seems" and not "seemed") to be a western European trait. My question is "Why?" Why, in particular, is Europe so in favor of the Palestinians and so against Israel? Emotionally, psychologically, why is anti-Semitism so deep in the European conscience?

That isn't to say that it doesn't exist in other places. But, we don't see any big protests by Nigerians, Australians, Colombians or Canadians about the situation. The swell of anger is in Europe. Why?

Someone educate me.

I don't think that opposing the Israeli policy towards the Palestinians and being anti-Semitic are the same thing. There are many Israelis that oppose their country's policies and I doubt they are anti-Semites.

Well, please explain the following as policy opposition instead of opposition of the Jews as Jews:

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europ ... 64625.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... urope.html

http://jta.org/news/article/2009/01/04/ ... ti-semitic

http://kohd.com/news/international/story-77459

There are lots more.


That, compared to this piece, which is actual policy-based, civil-protest, and which I find American and admirable even if it is or is not what I agree with.

rjjunior wrote:There may be some insight here

http://www.state.gov/p/eur/rls/rm/38113.htm

Good link, and thanks. But, even they don't answer the "why" question. They just resign that it is, always has been, and, by George, they'll fight it. Not really all that persuasive.

crispfin wrote:There are many Israelis that oppose their country's policies and I doubt they are anti-Semites.

Uncle Abraham?
Uncle David?


Uncle Jesus?

dolfan wrote:Well, please explain the following as policy opposition instead of opposition of the Jews as Jews:

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europ ... 64625.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... urope.html

http://jta.org/news/article/2009/01/04/ ... ti-semitic

http://kohd.com/news/international/story-77459

There are lots more.


That, compared to this piece, which is actual policy-based, civil-protest, and which I find American and admirable even if it is or is not what I agree with.

Everyone who disagrees with Israel's policy is not out committing hate crimes or spouting hate speech. There was protest demonstration in my city on Friday that did not result in violence. Violent attacks against Jews or [Arabs] in retaliation for what is going on in Gaza is wrong. That is not the kind of thing I was speaking of. I do think that governments in Europe and here as well should be concerned that violence conflict may happen or is happening in their country.

crispfin wrote:...Palestinians...

I suspect that Mr. Elston will join this thread soon in great detail, but I have a question that has never been answered to my satisfaction: can you define for me "Palestinian"?

Can you send a link to someone speaking Palestinian?
A book written in Palestinian?
Some Palestinian cultural practices?

Is Palestinian a race? A nationality? A genetic ethnicity? Could you point out a Palestinian in a random lineup of middle-easterners?

Pastor Gary wrote:

crispfin wrote:...Palestinians...

I suspect that Mr. Elston will join this thread soon in great detail, but I have a question that has never been answered to my satisfaction: can you define for me "Palestinian"?

Can you send a link to someone speaking Palestinian?
A book written in Palestinian?
Some Palestinian cultural practices?

Is Palestinian a race? A nationality? A genetic ethnicity? Could you point out a Palestinian in a random lineup of middle-easterners?

I guess it's whoever Israeli troops are shooting at at the moment. Don't worry, I'll edit my post to say "Arabs".

crispfin wrote:

Pastor Gary wrote:

crispfin wrote:...Palestinians...

I suspect that Mr. Elston will join this thread soon in great detail, but I have a question that has never been answered to my satisfaction: can you define for me "Palestinian"?

Can you send a link to someone speaking Palestinian?
A book written in Palestinian?
Some Palestinian cultural practices?

Is Palestinian a race? A nationality? A genetic ethnicity? Could you point out a Palestinian in a random lineup of middle-easterners?

I guess it's whoever Israeli troops are shooting at at the moment. Don't worry, I'll edit my post to say "Arabs".

Thanks... do you see my point? "Palestinian" is like "Alabamian" -- a group defined by their chosen place of residence. I have lived in Hawaii for decades, but I am not a Hawaiian. If I moved to Alabama, I could be an Alabamian overnight.

Pastor Gary wrote:Thanks... do you see my point? "Palestinian" is like "Alabamian" -- a group defined by their chosen place of residence. I have lived in Hawaii for decades, but I am not a Hawaiian. If I moved to Alabama, I could be an Alabamian overnight.

I don't know...Don't you have to marry your cousin or something to be Alabamian?

Sorry, hijack over.

crispfin wrote: Everyone who disagrees with Israel's policy is not out committing hate crimes or spouting hate speech. There was protest demonstration in my city on Friday that did not result in violence. Violent attacks against Jews or [Arabs] in retaliation for what is going on in Gaza is wrong. That is not the kind of thing I was speaking of. I do think that governments in Europe and here as well should be concerned that violence conflict may happen or is happening in their country.

But, that's exactly what I was speaking of and what the mainstream media has been calling anti-Semitism. So, we're talking about 2 different things. No biggie, understood. My question is still why? Why do Europeans react this way against Jews in Palestine? I could, in some twisted way I'd have to reach for a bit, understand if their anger was at Jews in Europe, for example, being corrupt or wielding power for evil, or what have you. But, to torch and destroy, to vandalize, about the Palestinian problems??? That's not passion about injustice. That's hatred about Jews being on the planet as far as I can tell. It just makes no sense.

And, hey, I'm not behind Israel 100%, either. The problems there are more complicated than being for one side or the other and just ignoring real injustices. There are plenty of good, hard working, and yes, Jew-hating Palestinians who would probably like to just work for a living everyday, bow to Allah and pray for the roasting of all non-Muslims (esp. Jews) without actually lifting a finger to bring those heartfelt desires to fruition. I don't get all worked up about these people. They are due justice and should be allowed to pursue their peaceful lives with prosperity. And, to harbor those hatreds if they like. That's life. Israel is wrong when it acts counter to that, IMO. Of course, even that is a gross oversimplification. In any event, I cannot for the life of me either conclude that this current invasion of Gaza is, on the whole, unjustified (although I'm certain that many instances of unjust killing happen), nor that people in Europe ought to be incensed enough about it to do some rampaging of their own.

crispfin wrote:

Pastor Gary wrote:Thanks... do you see my point? "Palestinian" is like "Alabamian" -- a group defined by their chosen place of residence. I have lived in Hawaii for decades, but I am not a Hawaiian. If I moved to Alabama, I could be an Alabamian overnight.

I don't know...Don't you have to marry your cousin or something to be Alabamian?

Sorry, hijack over.

Ah! Watch it! That only applies to people in Lee County.