Jude 2

Has your theology ever experienced a significant change as a result of a conversation on a message board? Please respond either way.

irthnvesl wrote:Has your theology ever experienced a significant change as a result of a conversation on a message board? Please respond either way.

Yes. But I would not choose the word "teaching" -- that supposes a pedagogical system in which knowledge or insight is imparted from learned to unlearned. Message boards (Jude2 for example) are based upon an andragogical system, in which information, ideas and insights are shared among peers in ways that elicit learning.

I have observed that you have often referred to yourself as a teacher on message boards (suggesting you know more than others) and often present your ideas in a vertical, top-down style, instead of coming at ideas as one investigating with an open mind, a fellow-learner. I think I know you well enough now to know that you are not condescending, but I also know that others have perceived you to be at times.

Pastor Gary wrote:

irthnvesl wrote:Has your theology ever experienced a significant change as a result of a conversation on a message board? Please respond either way.

Yes. But I would not choose the word "teaching" -- that supposes a pedagogical system in which knowledge or insight is imparted from learned to unlearned. Message boards (Jude2 for example) are based upon an andragogical system, in which information, ideas and insights are shared among peers in ways that elicit learning.

I have observed that you have often referred to yourself as a teacher on message boards (suggesting you know more than others) and often present your ideas in a vertical, top-down style, instead of coming at ideas as one investigating with an open mind, a fellow-learner. I think I know you well enough now to know that you are not condescending, but I also know that others have perceived you to be at times.

Pastor Gary, thanks for that insight...it helps in evaluating my methods for achieving my goal. I consider myself to be a perpetual learner as well as a teacher. If we fail to be learners as well as teachers we certainly do ourselves dis-service. I don't often come across the way I intend but am evaluating and trying to modify this aspect of my methods also. Again, thanks for the feedback brother.

Your Brother,

Russell Roberts

They haven't caused me to change my theology as of yet, but it is nice to be exposed to different perspectives, and it can highlight blind spots in your own views you would otherwise be oblivious to.

I would say that it is an effective learning tool, but not so much an effective teaching tool. From the giver's perspective, there is scant perception that what is being offered is being received. But from the receiver's perspective, there is a perception of being challenged. And challenge always creates learning.

Actually, I've participated in doctrinal discussions in the past and I can't say I've never learned anything, BUT... I think forums are an extremely poor medium for teaching or learning, especially doctrine.

WHY? Maybe somebody else can fill in that part of the question answer....

Jennifer pondered:

I think forums are an extremely poor medium for teaching or learning, especially doctrine.

WHY? Maybe somebody else can fill in that part of the question answer....

Because it's hard to concentrate on learning when you're trying to see who can pee higher?

Shellie, at my age, it is who can do it longer and without interruption!

Well, for one, I am certainly learning that Pastor Gary is being well educated at Fuller with his new found vernacular.

I am learning that humility is almost a priceless commodity among those of us who use a message board.

I am learning that those with strong opinions, usually keep them....even though in my sermon Sunday I said opionions were like diapers.....if they are not changed, they become stinky.

I am learning that those with strong opinions, don't want to embrace the opinions of those less articulate ...

I am learning that most teachers feel they have arrived and need no further teaching

I am learning that most perpetual students don't know whom to believe and so wind up believing in the "flavor of the week"


I am learning to keep my mouth (puter) shut.

I am learning that Shellie is always ready to bring us all back to reality....and I made up to 8 feet today.

Dr. Ron wrote:I am learning that most teachers feel they have arrived and need no further teaching

Wow.. heard that loud and clear. Listen and learn with this podcast.
http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/ori ... 090105.htm

Links are the best way to learn on a message board.

Jennifer Smith wrote:Actually, I've participated in doctrinal discussions in the past and I can't say I've never learned anything, BUT... I think forums are an extremely poor medium for teaching or learning, especially doctrine.

I remember back on the eNnAtMeErLaEcStSs board when Michael Olszta and a bunch of others of us would argue doctrine endlessly. I wouldn't be able to count how many times he or someone else would say something that challenged my position and forced me to look up obscure verses in the Old Testament and have to synthesize it with my perspective. I not only was forced to adjust my thinking often, but I also found new confirmations of my beliefs that I had never seen before. It was learning, learning, learning constantly.

But people are different and process information differently. Some people don't like to learn, even. They don't like to be challenged, or at least don't like to be challenged in certain areas to which their security is too attached. Others like to learn, but they don't take to detailed, heated argument as an appealing, motivating learning environment. Very few women ever got into those debates, and I think that women generally like a different kind of interaction for learning.

Anyway, I'm just spouting on lunch break. I like message boards, even if this is the only one I've ever been interested in, and I've done a lot of learning here over the years. But it's always taken strong, detailed, careful, intelligent people to set up the environment that made learning motivating.

for learning. yes. however, the nature of forums is essentially anonymous. we may choose to use real names or avatar names that are recognizable, but otherwise it is anyone on a keyboard. A few points I have learned over the years and after running one of the more popular bulletin board services in the Midwest (pre-Internet):

There is no such thing as a "debate" in a public forum. anyone can "join" and that's not a debate. there is no moderators. yes, there are forum moderators, but not debate moderators, two different things.

discussions can happen, and arguments (non-negative connotation) can happen as well. but beware the multi-conversation nature of the thread; quotes are often not used, or misused.

Text, is as text does. nearly nothing. we are a symbolic processing people. text is too literal, usually; even when using it to express the metaphysical. Many times "arguments" can be averted, and discovery that "the same page" is likely, just from asking for more clarification, or expressing a subject matter in a different way.

As an example, two people may be having a discussion about religion, and much argumentation (or arguments, even) happening, when they both turn out to have different personal, and working definitions of "religion", what it is, and what it means.

I have personally experienced more than a handful of times when someone will PM or email me saying that they have changed their mind, but that in the thread, they would not admit to it. Yes, this includes at least one receiving Christ, and others that involve specific beliefs of "doctrines".

Forums are a means or better, a medium of communication. There are many communication mediums, and text-posting in a forum is one of those. Teaching can happen, if the "student" is predisposed to that kind of learning; or if the student makes the extra effort to learn this way, if they normally are a visual, aural, or other kind of learner. all of the teaching/learning assumes that the threads are made appropriately as a teaching method, and not just a conversation, or idea expression.

mi dos centavos.

Dr. Ron wrote:Well, for one, ..... I made up to 8 feet today.

Yeah, but was it just for a second??

Shellie wrote:Jennifer pondered:

I think forums are an extremely poor medium for teaching or learning, especially doctrine.

WHY? Maybe somebody else can fill in that part of the question answer....

Because it's hard to concentrate on learning when you're trying to see who can pee higher?

Exactly! And...? There is another very important reason:
Many
people participating do not know what they are talking about, should not
be teachers, and/or hold doctrinal views that are skewed, wrongly arrived at, (or just plain different from my own!) I'm trying to put it delicately.

Tim, women have participated, although in this particular forum it hasn't always been an easy position for a woman to assume.

Dr. Ron wrote:Well, for one, I am certainly learning that Pastor Gary is being well educated at Fuller with his new found vernacular.

I am learning that humility is almost a priceless commodity among those of us who use a message board.

I am learning that those with strong opinions, usually keep them....even though in my sermon Sunday I said opionions were like diapers.....if they are not changed, they become stinky.

I am learning that those with strong opinions, don't want to embrace the opinions of those less articulate ...

I am learning that most teachers feel they have arrived and need no further teaching

I am learning that most perpetual students don't know whom to believe and so wind up believing in the "flavor of the week"


I am learning to keep my mouth (puter) shut.

I am learning that Shellie is always ready to bring us all back to reality....and I made up to 8 feet today.

Those were really good and funny observations! I thought of another one that sort of goes along with it:
(one reason I seldom debate anymore:)

"A man convinced against his will
is of the same opinion still."

Translation: When debates turn ugly or personal, there is no changing anyone's mind.. in fact, they will probably become more entrenched in their own point of view!