Jude 2

Now a second person has come forward with some pretty weird details of a personal encounter he had with Ted Haggard.

Basically, guy struggling with homosexuality gets kicked out of Moody Bible Institute, meets Haggard, Haggard says and does some pretty weird stuff, guy talks to New Life Church leadership privately, church tries to pay medical bills for him to get help and counseling, dude talks to TV station and violates confidentiality agreement.

Too much to list here, so check out the article:

http://www.krdo.com/Global/story.asp?S=9737380

What say ye? Sounds like there is more to the Haggard scandal to me and sounds like New Life may have tried to cover it up by offering the dude hush money that was paid for by insurance.

Sounds to me like a church that is trying its best to move beyond a horrible scandel that they did not create.

I am sure more skeletons will surface as they move forward. It will take a strong local church to get past this and survive. My prayer is for them

The devil loves to damage the gospel by destroying prominent ministries. All ministers have to be made aware of this and then keep on their toes at all times.

I hate that this happened, and that so many have been hurt -- in just this one case alone. But this travesty is repeated over and over: Catholics, Baptists, Pentecostals. Homosexuality, fornication, pornography, adultery. Lies, cheating, extortion, theft.

We are supposed to shine Christ's light in the world, and instead the word of God is blasphemed: on a large scale and on a small scale. Foul language or inappropriate humor in the workplace or school is as damaging -- while on a smaller scale.

It's just sad that God is mis-represented, and sometimes in such a vile and disgusting way. It makes me just sick.

Paul and Bibleguy--

What about the church paying the guy $180,000 for medical bills? I think it sounds more like hush money and the fact insurance rather than tithes paid for it sounds a lot like they knew something was going on and they were trying to cover their butts.

I don't want to sound accusatory but to someone who can read between the lines this all sounds very fishy.

I just want to know where the accountability is. This would not have happened had Haggard been transparent with his ministry staff and vice versa, much like Michael Guglielmucci the "Healer" songwriter.

I totally agree, and am as disgusted with the cover-ups as with the acts themselves. But that kind of cover-up has been know to hit even closer to home, in churches of our own movement, where a pastors have been sexually inappropriate and, instead of reprimanded, they were simply relocated.

This is an evil, when anyone would wish to "protect the ministry" and the reputation at all costs.

"EagerBeaver"

What about the church paying the guy $180,000 for medical bills? I think it sounds more like hush money and the fact insurance rather than tithes paid for it sounds a lot like they knew something was going on and they were trying to cover their butts.

One has to know the heart of the church and the current Pastor. Are they really concerned for the individual ? are they repentant and are truly trying to help him in an ongoing way. If so, I wouldn't consider it hush money. If the motive is wrong, then you are right and it is hush money. But I still see a church that is just trying to get beyond this mess.

I don't want to sound accusatory but to someone who can read between the lines this all sounds very fishy.

I just want to know where the accountability is. This would not have happened had Haggard been transparent with his ministry staff and vice versa, much like Michael Guglielmucci the "Healer" songwriter.

This is a little more complicated. Ted has as much admitted that he was a master deciever. There were some good, professional men that he meet with regularly. I believe in transparency and accountability. But sometimes we can all be decieved.

I think a more pertinant question is where is the Spiritual Discernment in the Body of Christ today.

paul wrote:I think a more pertinant question is where is the Spiritual Discernment in the Body of Christ today.

Good question.

bibleguy wrote:

paul wrote:I think a more pertinant question is where is the Spiritual Discernment in the Body of Christ today.

Good question.

I would definitely have to agree with that statement 150%.

Discernment went out when Pentecostalism started following Ministers who preach that God can't do anything without man and "God is a man".

If you follow idiots like that, why are you people suprised by anything else?????

The thing that offended me most about the Haggard thing is not the issue with which he struggled but when he attempted to come back he said "I'm back for the wilderness." This throws up red flags to me, drawing a parallel between being run out for struggling with homosexuality and Christ being led by the Spirit into the Wilderness.

Oh yeah??

There already are people who have the authority and responsibility to deal with Ted Haggard, his ministry and it's problems. I have enough worries without taking those on too

Let the secular press bear the costs of publicizing scandal about the church. I'm not saving them a penny by spreading it for them.

We'd all be better off if we followed this scripture;

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.
Philippians 4:7-9

I'm pretty sure Gerald would be a lot less P.O.ed overall if he did...

Love ya, G.C....

.

bibleguy
I totally agree, and am as disgusted with the cover-ups as with the acts themselves. But that kind of cover-up has been know to hit even closer to home, in churches of our own movement, where a pastors have been sexually inappropriate and, instead of reprimanded, they were simply relocated.

This is an evil, when anyone would wish to "protect the ministry" and the reputation at all costs.

How sad but true, I've seen this more then once. Some will fade away and other just hang around for ever. Some still have nice churches and act like that nothing ever happen.

Mike Vande wrote:There already are people who have the authority and responsibility to deal with Ted Haggard, his ministry and it's problems. I have enough worries without taking those on too

Let the secular press bear the costs of publicizing scandal about the church. I'm not saving them a penny by spreading it for them.

We'd all be better off if we followed this scripture;

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.
Philippians 4:7-9

I'd have to agree, because, that article was too much information...! I'd rather leave the sordid details to those who "need to know". It is sad for him. But he doesn't have to live in bondage, there is freedom available through Jesus!

I caught the tail end of a tv special with Haggard on it last night....didn't see but about 2 minutes of it.....kinda weird.

The reason we have these issues is that too many men set themselves up to be more than they are.

A haughty spirit goeth before the fall...and pride before destruction.

You can't become a "rock star" preacher and not expect to have your life opened up like a can of worms....The higher you rise, the easier target.

As for discernment, I have been involved in ministry for over 50 years. I have never in my lifetime seen discernment used as a means of detecting evil/sinfull/ unGodly behavior. I am not sure that we should even depend on that.....I could be wrong, I just have never seen that as a practice. Please don't misunderstand this statement.

We do not know how to practice accountability and have never really demanded it, so we have no real way of "discerning " people with whom we have no contact. I preached on this Sunday. Nathan KNEW David when he approached him....he had earned the right to speak into his life.

I think that fruit will bear iteself out.

Dr. Ron wrote:You can't become a "rock star" preacher and not expect to have your life opened up like a can of worms....The higher you rise, the easier target.

I think that is the crux of the matter. "Rock Star" preachers are a perversion. The local church is where the tithe, the attendance and the loyalty are supposed to belong. No one was ever called to be a star in the church except Jesus. It was never supposed to be "I can lift Jesus up higher if I'm lifted up higher." When Jesus said "if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me", He was talking about being cruciified, not being turned into a media sensation.
I really think the whole megachurch paradigm is a deathtrap for preachers, who often pull the efforts of the ministries they build down with them when the fall, and smear the rest of the church with their failings. Small groups of people of committed people who don't have buildings and programs and international distribution for DVDs of their teaching minstry in mind, but who rather have the Gospel and what it has done for them in the hearts, that's who does the Work of the Church. Mass media minsitries are becoming kind of like bible tracts these days, I think. The world has become inured to them. It's time for someone to come up with something different. I think what Gary is doing with You Tube may be the tip of a new media ministry iceberg. No glitz, no high dollar production values, no having to sell your soul and fleece the faithful for enough money to buy network or cable air time in the right time slot for your target demographic, no big name Christians to attract attention from folks who are most likely to make donations, just the message and concept delivered by a man who knows what he's talking about, without histrionic vocal delivery or insincere "sincerity" whomped up to sell the idea.


Hmmm. People are jaded by media. And preachers are almost always worse off when they leave the airwaves than when the went on. Do you think there might be a lesson there, folks?