Jude 2

This article in Christianity Today tells about where Haggard is now, as well as the recent documentary airing on HBO.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/200 ... tml?start=

It sounds as though he is at peace, repentant, having dealt with the internal struggle. And his wife is still with him. God's grace is enough.

Jennifer, once a dog bites me from then on no matter much he wags his tail, I keep an eye on him and stay just out of his reach.

Interesting, just wondering if the news report a few days ago had anything to do with the HBO special?

Just to bring this back into the minds of people. Most may have forgot about it.

Mole_J wrote:Interesting, just wondering if the news report a few days ago had anything to do with the HBO special?

Just to bring this back into the minds of people. Most may have forgot about it.

Yes, I believe Haggard is doing some promotion for the special and then there is probably news interest in him as well simultaneously... the guy probably made a buck or two from that story. According to the article, Tim Haggard is not being paid for the HBO Special other than the promotions he has done.

I caught the last 5 minutes of the HBO special last night (I did not know about it)...It showed him walking in the desert with a Bible talking about how special the Bible is to him now, how he reads it every day, etc...Then it showed him sitting in the desert reading the Bible and praying.

The ending at least looked a little to staged to me but I can't judge the entire show by what I saw. I'll probably watch it some time to get a better perspective.

Also, it was directed/produced by Nancy Pelosi's daughter who does a lot of documentary work.

free wrote:I caught the last 5 minutes of the HBO special last night (I did not know about it)...It showed him walking in the desert with a Bible talking about how special the Bible is to him now, how he reads it every day, etc...Then it showed him sitting in the desert reading the Bible and praying.

The ending at least looked a little to staged to me but I can't judge the entire show by what I saw. I'll probably watch it some time to get a better perspective.

Also, it was directed/produced by Nancy Pelosi's daughter who does a lot of documentary work.

You have that Hell Bound Organization on your tv? ...j/k

Yep...7 or 8 channels of it...I figure if you're going to go you might as well go all the way!

I saw most of the special.

I was appalled. The man's life is in a shambles.

He was not allowed to live in his own home for 18 months because the church he started wouldn't allow him to. He is not allowed to set foot on the campus of the church he built.

I am not privy to all the information surrounding his "rehabilitation" but this sounds the most extreme I have ever heard.

Oletimer....I pray you never have a sin issue to deal with.....your assessment is exactly why people leave the church and never return. We shoot our wounded.

This man preached and taught about grace and forgiveness. His church was "embarrassed" and "reproached" .....well....I hate it for you.
Now issue a statement to the press saying how well this proves that all men are sinners and in need of the grace of God everyday. Therefore this church will stand behind this man and lead him back to "redemption" like we preach is available for everyone here.

I was so hurt for Ted. Not that I agree with what he did, but I understand fully why he didn't feel like he could talk to anyone about his issues.

For the first time he has had to deal with his private issues. He said something to the effect ......" I am not happy that I failed, but I would rather be here and have dealt with my issues, than not to have ever had to deal with them. I have a certain freedom." Not a direct quote, but close ....

Anyway, I have not prayed for this man until I saw that special....now I add him to my prayer list .....as for his board......God forgive the unforgiving spirit.

Dr. Ron wrote:I saw most of the special.

I was appalled. The man's life is in a shambles.

He was not allowed to live in his own home for 18 months because the church he started wouldn't allow him to. He is not allowed to set foot on the campus of the church he built.

I am not privy to all the information surrounding his "rehabilitation" but this sounds the most extreme I have ever heard.

Oletimer....I pray you never have a sin issue to deal with.....your assessment is exactly why people leave the church and never return. We shoot our wounded.

This man preached and taught about grace and forgiveness. His church was "embarrassed" and "reproached" .....well....I hate it for you.
Now issue a statement to the press saying how well this proves that all men are sinners and in need of the grace of God everyday. Therefore this church will stand behind this man and lead him back to "redemption" like we preach is available for everyone here.

I was so hurt for Ted. Not that I agree with what he did, but I understand fully why he didn't feel like he could talk to anyone about his issues.

For the first time he has had to deal with his private issues. He said something to the effect ......" I am not happy that I failed, but I would rather be here and have dealt with my issues, than not to have ever had to deal with them. I have a certain freedom." Not a direct quote, but close ....

Anyway, I have not prayed for this man until I saw that special....now I add him to my prayer list .....as for his board......God forgive the unforgiving spirit.

Thank you Dr. Ron. I echo your sentiments.

Dr. Ron wrote:I saw most of the special.

I was appalled. The man's life is in a shambles.

He was not allowed to live in his own home for 18 months because the church he started wouldn't allow him to. He is not allowed to set foot on the campus of the church he built.

I am not privy to all the information surrounding his "rehabilitation" but this sounds the most extreme I have ever heard.

Oletimer....I pray you never have a sin issue to deal with.....your assessment is exactly why people leave the church and never return. We shoot our wounded.

This man preached and taught about grace and forgiveness. His church was "embarrassed" and "reproached" .....well....I hate it for you.
Now issue a statement to the press saying how well this proves that all men are sinners and in need of the grace of God everyday. Therefore this church will stand behind this man and lead him back to "redemption" like we preach is available for everyone here.

I was so hurt for Ted. Not that I agree with what he did, but I understand fully why he didn't feel like he could talk to anyone about his issues.

For the first time he has had to deal with his private issues. He said something to the effect ......" I am not happy that I failed, but I would rather be here and have dealt with my issues, than not to have ever had to deal with them. I have a certain freedom." Not a direct quote, but close ....

Anyway, I have not prayed for this man until I saw that special....now I add him to my prayer list .....as for his board......God forgive the unforgiving spirit.

I wish I could see the special, but we don't have the "Hell Bound Organization" on our tv! The quote you mentioned is in that CT article and I was touched by that, too. Thank God for his saving, keeping grace.

We shoot our wounded.

An't that the sad truth. I would like to have seen the special on T.H.

I read an article reviewing the HBO documentary. That's all I know of it. But, I admit I've been a man of two minds on Haggard. The destruction of his actions was amplified because of his popularity. In some ways, his popularity probably contributed to his destructive decisions and conduct, but I don't know for sure.

It is, for the church, a cautionary tale about largeness. Largeness brought down greater men than Ted Haggard (David, anyone?). And, in the process of growing a church and impacting the culture, I ask this honest question for you pastors ---- is it possible that the local church that is growing loses sight of the trees because it is looking so intently at the forest??

I'm just curious.

dolfan wrote:I read an article reviewing the HBO documentary. That's all I know of it. But, I admit I've been a man of two minds on Haggard. The destruction of his actions was amplified because of his popularity. In some ways, his popularity probably contributed to his destructive decisions and conduct, but I don't know for sure.

It is, for the church, a cautionary tale about largeness. Largeness brought down greater men than Ted Haggard (David, anyone?). And, in the process of growing a church and impacting the culture, I ask this honest question for you pastors ---- is it possible that the local church that is growing loses sight of the trees because it is looking so intently at the forest??

I'm just curious.

But, they started out small. Size isn't necessarily the problem, except pastors, even small church pastors, can get into a place where they feel they have no one to confide in, pray with, especially about that kind of issue. Smaller church pastors are not exempt from struggles... We visited a small-ish church a few months ago and you may remember I shared about it. My husband would have put down money that the pastor had an issue with homosexuality through spiritual discernment. It was a pentecostal church, with sound doctrine, but with weak or at least struggling leadership. How could that pastor get any help? In his organization he would probably have his license taken away if he breathed a word to anyone.
Maybe the problem is church members are not mature enough to assume their roles in the church and to support and uphold the pastors, in prayer and otherwise. Churches are babysitting services. Even when members have some maturity, they are so hesitant to use what God has given them and step forward to do something. That is my rant. It sickens me to see churches and communities ail and suffer when there is no good reason for it...simply because able-bodied and well-fed congregations are selfish, lazy and reticent.
I sort of went down a rabbit trail, there. I still think Tim Haggard is responsible and accountable for his own actions, but God is gracious.

Dr. Ron wrote:I saw most of the special.

I was appalled. The man's life is in a shambles.

He was not allowed to live in his own home for 18 months because the church he started wouldn't allow him to. He is not allowed to set foot on the campus of the church he built.

I am not privy to all the information surrounding his "rehabilitation" but this sounds the most extreme I have ever heard.

Since I know one of the Associates that stepped forward as part of the team left to deal with the fallout of Haggard's fall, I can tell you that your asessment of the church and its leadership is flawed, and is based upon the very effective work of Haggard's P.R. machine.

He was not just thrown to curb as he tries to make it appear.

(Was that the documentary produced by Nancy Pelosi's daughter, Alexandra? She is a good producer, actually, but her piece was about Ted, from his perspective.)

Dr. Ron posted
Oletimer....I pray you never have a sin issue to deal with.....your assessment is exactly why people leave the church and never return. We shoot our wounded.

In way I think I know what you are trying to say. I go back as far as you and have seen a lot of things thru the years. I saw few that I thought was delt with without care. I seen some that were in perverted situation and they were treated with kids gloves and the end results was same old same old and more lost souls and property.

Yes I feel we need to pray for these that do this kind of sins. But at the same time we need to keep an eye on them. I believe that this is line with scriptures.

Just a thought, how many souls were hurt and maybe lost because of him and his problem? I've seen this happen to.

Also I didn't say I would shoot him, just be careful how I would handle him.

Winning and keeping the sheep is what the church should be doing. Protecting the other sheep is a pastor job to.

Ro 16:17
¶ Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Ro 16:18
For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

While at the samer time see if we can help them. A blank check may only cause them more harm in the long run.

Jas 5:19
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.