Jude 2

There is no "fine line" between an Economic Recession and an e
Economic Depression. Basically it boils down to, when it's the other guy that's being effected it's a "recession." When it's you being effected, it's a "depression!"

The rumor mills at work have been in full production for the last week or so. All kinds of rumors were floated, with all the dire outcomes that they would bring. On Friday the company announced the steps that it is taking to try to deal with the present economic downturn.

As of Monday, March 9, 2009 the production division of the company will have a one week lay-off. All salaried employees will take a 10% reduction in pay, in addition to taking a one week unpaid furlough at some point within the first quarter, with possible additional furloughs later in the year.

These action are predicated on a projected short-fall of $20,000,000.00 this year. During the meetings when the actions were officially announced the one question that I raised was:
Is this 20 million an actual loss, or is it a short fall in planned profits? Management was forced to admit that the company would still be making a profit this year despite this short fall.

So now I'm confused. Is this a recession or a depression? On the one hand, the company that I work for remains a viable entity, not in danger of immediate collapse. Yet on the other hand, I am feeling the effects of the economic downturn directly. I am having to use a weeks vacation to offset the loss of income that the lay-off would result in.

So, is it officially a "DEPRESSION" yet?


TW

actually, I thought the "line" was a timeline determination (how long it has been at certain GDP levels).

TW, same thing happened with us all across Gannett Newspapers. We all had to take a mandatory furlough of five days worth of work and I fully expect a second furlough in the second quarter.

Most of Gannett's papers are profitable, but all signs point to shareholder expectations being too lofty. Thus the layoffs, etc. to increase profit margin.

I believe this actually to be the case for most of corporate America...there is a reason private companies are still doing very well in this economic collapse. The recession/depression, whatever you want to call it, has been foisted on us by Wall Street greed, and government idiots who feel it best to interfere with free enterprise. These problems have brought our nation's philosophy of "spend before you have the money" to light.

Whatever way you look at it, the common man has it pretty bad and it sucks.

good thing you have vacation pay otherwise you would be feeling the pinch

Full Quiver wrote:good thing you have vacation pay otherwise you would be feeling the pinch

Furlough is unpaid. We are doing this in lieu of layoffs.

To skirt this, I have filed for unemployment with the State of Missouri. If we have a second week of furlough, March 9-14 will be my waiting week and I will receive unemployment benefits the second time around.

EagerBeaver wrote:The recession/depression, whatever you want to call it, has been foisted on us by Wall Street greed, and government idiots who feel it best to interfere with free enterprise.

As I see it, the problem stems from Wall Street and Washington being in cahoots together. There is no distinction between government and private enterprise. A revolving door between corporate lobbying and government service has effectively sold the national interest out to personal interest.

I would guess this is debatable, but Wikipedia's entry for Economic Depression says this: "Generally, periods labeled depressions are marked by a substantial and sustained shortfall of the ability to purchase goods relative to the amount that could be produced using current resources and technology (potential output).

"Though there is no widely accepted definition for an economic depression, according to an article in The Economist, there are two rules of thumb found widely on the internet. One is a decline in real GDP exceeding 10%, and the other is a recession lasting 3 or more years."

I don't think we have reached either criterion yet.

On these points Tim you and I do agree heartily.

When you read the right material, you seem to be fairly intelligent.

Hey man, I have to pull your chain a little.

The work places here are cutting back also. Some are cutting back a few hours per week (-4hrs), some are cutting back to a 4 day week.

Eager sadly the common man always gets it passed down eventually.. no matter what it is. If taxes are raised.. on a company.. it's ALL $$ passed down.

Tim, Private INTERESTS are also at the root of what makes this country extraordinary. Just the sheer fact that we can have private interests and yearnings for a better way of life. I'm not talking about deceitful, harmful or wrong practices.. but private interests combined with large risk and hard work can create untold jobs. We don't need to punish the people that are doing RIGHT.. just the ones that are wrong.

Depression? No I think we are spoiled rotten.

America's poor equals two cars and colored TV w/cable.

I think if the people who lived through the great depression saw the way we live now they say "Yeah right".

MacUser wrote:We don't need to punish the people that are doing RIGHT.. just the ones that are wrong.

I'm a capitalist, MacUser. I believe in pursuing private interest. But I do not believe in monopolizing political power to stack the deck in favor of particular private interests at the expense of the nation and its citizens. The revolving door between corporate lobbying and government service constitutes the corporate monopolization of the Executive and Legislative branches for short-term private profit at the expense of the long-term health of the country and its public interests. Washington is owned and operated by the richest corporate shareholders, and our elected officials cater to their interests first because of the private wealth that can be accrued by being pimped by narrow corporate interests instead of being faithful to the electorate.

But we have no one to blame but ourselves for our monetary system and its exploitation, because we prefer to luxuriate in our party prejudices instead of to elect people who refuse to be owned by, and themselves become, those who are robbing us blind. Talk about a war on private property: The corporate takeover of the U.S. government is one of the greatest assaults on private property that history has ever known.

Eager, we furloughed some guys at their request. They are qualified to get unemployment benefits as well.

My comment was to TW. If he is using saved holiday benefits to offset his off time then he personally is not feeling the pinch from a lack of income standpoint.

No Danny I'm not at present feeling the pinch of reduced income. That is one advantage of having an extra week of annual leave time available. I would have preferred to take this time later in the year, but we have to deal with realities.


TW

I hear you TW. I have been blessed in a similar way at work.

This is an OBAMA DEPRESSION-------- Let me give a big thank you, to all that voted for this CHANGE.